I'm new on this site, and am wondering if anyone here could explain to me the primary differences between arnis, escrima and kali. I dont have any formal martial arts study under my belt yet, but I've gotten interested the FMAs (because of their reputation for "real-world" effectiveness and because I'm interested in learning to use a knife, naturally). Before I pick one, though, I'd like someone familiar with them to explain the real differences among them. Thanks.
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Differentiating the FMAs
- Thread starter Matt1911
- Start date
You're going to get a bunch of different responses to that question...why don't you check out Mark Wiley's book FILIPINO MARTIAL CULTURE and figure it out for yourself?
There's a review of it someplace on the board here...do a search if it an't visible anymore...Wiley's got a new book on FMAs too, I hear it's righteous.
My take on your question is that, on a "superficial level", there is no major difference...however, once you start getting into discussions of specific arts, then you're gonna see things that are more blade-oriented than others...explore the site here, click on some URL's, see who the folks are raving about and who they are panning, and figure out your own way, okay?
Now if you wanna get into a discussion of the various possible roots/origins of the word "Kali" as it pertains to FMAs...well, you might want to do that with someone else with a few hours to kill...
I wish you the best of luck on your path--you've discovered a fine group here, and a LOT of tactical know-how...take your time, get to know us, and you'll do just fine, okay? Peace.
There's a review of it someplace on the board here...do a search if it an't visible anymore...Wiley's got a new book on FMAs too, I hear it's righteous.
My take on your question is that, on a "superficial level", there is no major difference...however, once you start getting into discussions of specific arts, then you're gonna see things that are more blade-oriented than others...explore the site here, click on some URL's, see who the folks are raving about and who they are panning, and figure out your own way, okay?
Now if you wanna get into a discussion of the various possible roots/origins of the word "Kali" as it pertains to FMAs...well, you might want to do that with someone else with a few hours to kill...
I wish you the best of luck on your path--you've discovered a fine group here, and a LOT of tactical know-how...take your time, get to know us, and you'll do just fine, okay? Peace.
There is no one correct answer to this question. Arguably they all mean the same thing. All three are just names used to describe the armed fighting arts of the Philipines. One mans Kali is another mans arnis is another mans escrima is another mans garrote is another mans pananandata, etc, etc...
There was, I imagine, a time when you could tell where a FMA'ist got his art from based on the name he used to describe it. That day, if it ever truly existed, is long gone. Styles have merged and changed over the years. Plus, various masters have CHANGED the names of the art to reflect a current trend or what not. (insert name here) arnis might now be called (insert name here) eskrima.
just my 2 cents
J-MAN
There was, I imagine, a time when you could tell where a FMA'ist got his art from based on the name he used to describe it. That day, if it ever truly existed, is long gone. Styles have merged and changed over the years. Plus, various masters have CHANGED the names of the art to reflect a current trend or what not. (insert name here) arnis might now be called (insert name here) eskrima.
just my 2 cents
J-MAN
I second the suggestion of reading Mark Wiley´s "Filipino Martial Culture". The single best book on FMA I´ve read to date (although even there´s some stuff to argue about, mainly why no Modern Arnis/Presas style has been covered by Wiley).
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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
- Joined
- Nov 17, 1998
- Messages
- 3,291
Mark Wiley's new book "Filipino Fighting Arts" has a chapter on Modern Arnis.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0865681805/qid=979523456/sr=2-2/ref=sc_b_2/107-0069517-1920506
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K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0865681805/qid=979523456/sr=2-2/ref=sc_b_2/107-0069517-1920506
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K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978
- Joined
- Nov 28, 1999
- Messages
- 235
there no difference in the actual technique of arnis or eskrima, the difference is in who is teaching the style and what techniques does he select.
most of the new "combat oriented" stuff i seen lately is the same thing everyone else does,
drills
"live, combat" drills
sensitivity drills
pre-hispanic "authentic" style and techniques
"killing" techniques/blade only styles
"held-back", secret, or family arts
my opinion is the person who has the lineage people can authenticate will probably be a better teacher because he is more honest. but if you are looking for a true fighting style, the person teaching must have a few things (or at least what i look for):
-he is humble enough to say he trained with these different teachers, and this is what good stuff he got from them. beware of the man who abandon his old, useless style because the "FMA" is so deadly. thats garbage. every teacher you went to has good information, and i question the one who said "i took TKD, and they suck. but THIS, this stuff is for real..."
-he has people who knew him "when". many of the FMA "masters" i see been in it less than
7 or 8 years, maybe less. if look into the background of these guys, they are kung fu, kenpo, or whatever, and you can see it in there movement. there's nothing wrong with that, but are they honest?
-the fighting style. many good fighters will create his own technique. how did this person decide what techniques are better? in his gym with his students? or in the competition against the top fighters in his area? or did he go to the philippines to a poor old eskrimador and buy him gifts, in return for certification? does his techniques have what everyone else is doing? there are many people who have "improve" their jkd/fma whatever, but they are doing the same stuff all over again.
-finally, how did he convince you that his technique is good? did he tell you or describe it? or did he spar with you to prove it to you. most people will say "give me a hit here" but they dont want a full power hit. some will say "hit me" you pick the place you pick the speed and power, then they will show it.you tell me whose technique is better.
have you heard the saying that styles are a dime a dozen, and fighters are a dime a dozen, but a fighter who can teach a good style if you can find him is worth a million dollars-whatever you value your life for. don't be easily convince that arnis or eskrima or "kali" is better or different because it is who is teaching it and what did he experience. that is the only difference.
most of the new "combat oriented" stuff i seen lately is the same thing everyone else does,
drills
"live, combat" drills
sensitivity drills
pre-hispanic "authentic" style and techniques
"killing" techniques/blade only styles
"held-back", secret, or family arts
my opinion is the person who has the lineage people can authenticate will probably be a better teacher because he is more honest. but if you are looking for a true fighting style, the person teaching must have a few things (or at least what i look for):
-he is humble enough to say he trained with these different teachers, and this is what good stuff he got from them. beware of the man who abandon his old, useless style because the "FMA" is so deadly. thats garbage. every teacher you went to has good information, and i question the one who said "i took TKD, and they suck. but THIS, this stuff is for real..."
-he has people who knew him "when". many of the FMA "masters" i see been in it less than
7 or 8 years, maybe less. if look into the background of these guys, they are kung fu, kenpo, or whatever, and you can see it in there movement. there's nothing wrong with that, but are they honest?
-the fighting style. many good fighters will create his own technique. how did this person decide what techniques are better? in his gym with his students? or in the competition against the top fighters in his area? or did he go to the philippines to a poor old eskrimador and buy him gifts, in return for certification? does his techniques have what everyone else is doing? there are many people who have "improve" their jkd/fma whatever, but they are doing the same stuff all over again.
-finally, how did he convince you that his technique is good? did he tell you or describe it? or did he spar with you to prove it to you. most people will say "give me a hit here" but they dont want a full power hit. some will say "hit me" you pick the place you pick the speed and power, then they will show it.you tell me whose technique is better.
have you heard the saying that styles are a dime a dozen, and fighters are a dime a dozen, but a fighter who can teach a good style if you can find him is worth a million dollars-whatever you value your life for. don't be easily convince that arnis or eskrima or "kali" is better or different because it is who is teaching it and what did he experience. that is the only difference.
All right then. Thanks for all your input, folks. I'll see if I can find "Filipino Martial Culture" at one of the local mega-bookstores. As for instruction, I won't be too concerned with which/what FMA(s) the instructor is teaching, but more with what his qualifications are. This concerns me a bit, since I'm not sure I know enough to assess whether an instructor really knows his stuff. However, my best buddy is Filipino and his father is a combat vet who used command a ranger battalion in the Filipino Army. He practiced martial arts of some sort--almost certainly one or more of the FMAs--several hours a day, three or so dats per week. So I'll see if he can give me any tips on what to look for.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 1999
- Messages
- 568
Matt1911,
I would like to invite you to stop by our club and work out with us.
A little background: my teacher's name is David Wink. David was a direct student of Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje of Pekiti-tirsia in the early 80's. During this time he also studied Pentjak Silat under Suryardi "Eddie" Jafri and was a training partner with Eric "Top Dog" Knaus of the Dog Brothers. He has more than 20 years of experience in applying his system in full-contact sparring and as a result, his system is effective & practical.
We are located in Frederick, Maryland. I realize that it's a bit of a hike for you but if you're really interested in an effective system, then I believe you'll find it's worth the trip.
Please contact me here or by private email if you're interested.
Thanks.
Dave Fulton
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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.
"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
I would like to invite you to stop by our club and work out with us.
A little background: my teacher's name is David Wink. David was a direct student of Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje of Pekiti-tirsia in the early 80's. During this time he also studied Pentjak Silat under Suryardi "Eddie" Jafri and was a training partner with Eric "Top Dog" Knaus of the Dog Brothers. He has more than 20 years of experience in applying his system in full-contact sparring and as a result, his system is effective & practical.
We are located in Frederick, Maryland. I realize that it's a bit of a hike for you but if you're really interested in an effective system, then I believe you'll find it's worth the trip.
Please contact me here or by private email if you're interested.
Thanks.
Dave Fulton
------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.
"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
Don't believe that all FMA's are the same, because they are not!!!
Don't only look at the instructor, look at everything you can find out about the art, training methods, philosophies, weapons, tactics. They will differ in different arts.
Talk to people that have knowledge in more than one FMA.
IF YOU WANT TO LEARN BLADE..find a Sayoc Kali School
Remember, I'm totally bias
Tom Kier
SAYOC KALI