difficult choice for easy sharpening... what would you do ?

[hellvenger]

hi

first i'm not a master in sharpening but i would want a easy way to get a good result.

i don(t know if i must chose :

- a Fallkniven Combination Whetstone (FNDC4)

- or a spyderco sharpmaker

i'm in france and i can get the FNDC4 for 28 $ or the sharpmaker for 65 $ ..

which one would you chose ?

 

[bgentry]

The FNDC4 is only 4" x 1". For *me* personally, that's WAY too small. Even trying to hand hold something like that would be difficult for me. I have a Spyderco DoubleStuff, which is similar in size and I find it to be nearly useless. Again, for *me* and how I sharpen.

The SharpMaker is a better tool in my opinion. The only thing the FNDC4 has going is that one side is diamond, so it will be faster to remove material for blades that are more than a little dull. The SharpMaker is almost useless (as it comes) for VERY dull blades, because the medium ceramic is pretty slow to remove material as it's somewhere between 600 and 800 grit.

I'd chose the SharpMaker, knowing that it is mostly for touchups and light sharpening jobs and will be easy to use.

Brian.

 

[mrdeus]

I have both, but for very different usages. The DC4 is for in-field sharpening. The Sharpmaker is for at-home touch-ups.

 

[awestib]

I would go for the Spyderco Sharpmaker and add on a Norton Crystolon coarse/fine stone and oil. You can reprofile any knife blade to less than 20 dps (or less than 15 dps if you wish so) with the Crystolon stone, that way you practice/learn also freehand sharpening, and the Sharpmaker adds on the final fine edge (Microbevel), refines the apex to a very sharp and crisp stage. You can make a blade as sharp as you ever going to need it! The DC4 diamond side is also not the most coarse abrasive, certainly not after it has been broken in, so reprofiling in a pinch is not going to work for everybody with this thing. In regards to "field sharpening", well there are so many different approaches and opinions as sharpening tools. If interested, check out the recent thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ons-need-help-please!?p=13886148#post13886148

 

[cbwx34]

Work Sharp Field Sharpener an option? It's a feature packed little unit...

 

[ak585479]

Sharpmaker. Then buy diamond rods and an ultra fine rod and you can reoprofile or sharpen the dullest blade to hair whittling sharp.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Lots of 'preferences' (read: bias) against small stones, as you'll find some will swear they can't be useful. If the grit is sufficiently aggressive, as with a decent diamond hone, they're a lot more useful than many will give them credit for. Everybody has their own preferences, and that will depend upon which tools or methods you develop habits for using.

In the last couple of days, I've been tinkering with my Fallkniven DC4 (in part, spurred by recent discussion or debate about their usefulness). For many typical folder-sized blades up to about 4" in length, it's not hard to completely re-bevel and finish blades this size on the diamond side of the DC4. I did this to a Spyderco folder in VG-10 day before yesterday, just to remind myself of how effective it can be. 99% of the result comes down to finding a technique that suits your preferences and abilities, and the rest is a matter of finding a tool that fits in that scheme.

Small hones will work much faster with a 'scrubbing' technique for re-bevelling or major edge repairs; then a very light edge-leading technique is usually best for the finishing touches. I've also done the same when using larger, bench-sized hones.

The Sharpmaker and similar V-crock type sharpeners are very easy to learn, maybe the easiest. If only needing to maintain edges that are already in pretty good shape (not excessively dull or damaged), the stock kit should work well. If wanting to do much re-bevelling or heavier edge repairs, the diamond rods for it would be a wise option to include, as ceramic hones by themselves will be very slow in removing a lot of metal. This would also apply to the DoubleStuff hone as well; it uses the same exact medium/fine ceramics as with the Sharpmaker's stock rods.


David

 

[IXLR8]

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, since I'm a novice and seemingly there are pro knife sharpening folks here.
However, it seems to me that the cheaper route to take is to use a lansky system to obtain the desirable edge profile for a particular blade.

Once you get the profile correct, put the lansky back in the closet. Everything from there on is hand done on a quality finishing stone.
I do not know why people think that there is no human error in sharpening systems. There is.
Pressures for one. Even the finest systems , in my opinion, unless I'm missing something, do not completely eliminate human error.
A cheap Lansky system will get you close enough to... perfect...(That is, not a perfect edge, but able to perfect an edge) an edge to the best of human abilities.

Below is a 25 degree edge profile/secondary bevel, worked up and polished out, on a Hollow ground blade.
Great for skinning, shaving and cutting your steak.....but not chopping wood. The edge was achieved by roughing in, with a simple, inexpensive Lansky then worked up and polished on a Translucent Arkansas stone followed by very extremely light stropping. Like 2 strokes on each side very lightly.

I have also found that quick touch ups with only a strop and aluminum oxide powder with a little oil does well.

Again, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I'm new here. And I certainly am not a professional knife sharpener, but I feel edges like this are attainable without spending 200.00 on something like a " wicked edge " sharpening system..
yes, it will shave your face.
Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

 

[Bob6794]

Lots of 'preferences' (read: bias) against small stones, as you'll find some will swear they can't be useful. If the grit is sufficiently aggressive, as with a decent diamond hone, they're a lot more useful than many will give them credit for. Everybody has their own preferences, and that will depend upon which tools or methods you develop habits for using.

In the last couple of days, I've been tinkering with my Fallkniven DC4 (in part, spurred by recent discussion or debate about their usefulness). For many typical folder-sized blades up to about 4" in length, it's not hard to completely re-bevel and finish blades this size on the diamond side of the DC4. I did this to a Spyderco folder in VG-10 day before yesterday, just to remind myself of how effective it can be. 99% of the result comes down to finding a technique that suits your preferences and abilities, and the rest is a matter of finding a tool that fits in that scheme.

Small hones will work much faster with a 'scrubbing' technique for re-bevelling or major edge repairs; then a very light edge-leading technique is usually best for the finishing touches. I've also done the same when using larger, bench-sized hones.

The Sharpmaker and similar V-crock type sharpeners are very easy to learn, maybe the easiest. If only needing to maintain edges that are already in pretty good shape (not excessively dull or damaged), the stock kit should work well. If wanting to do much re-bevelling or heavier edge repairs, the diamond rods for it would be a wise option to include, as ceramic hones by themselves will be very slow in removing a lot of metal. This would also apply to the DoubleStuff hone as well; it uses the same exact medium/fine ceramics as with the Sharpmaker's stock rods.


David

After reading your post I felt like seeing what I could do on a small stone free hand again since I haven't done so in a while or even practice sharpening in awhile. Pulled out the DMT course from my DMT Aligner which is 4in and tossed that on top of a drawer liner to hold it in place and went at it and was surprised by the result. I got it to being able to barely treetop arm hair (every once in awhile it treetop one, but not consistent). It was more based on my skill why it wasn't consistent, quite happy with it though I forgot how nice those DMT's were. Larger stone while helpful and makes life easier the smaller stones are just as capable if you know how to use it properly.

As a side note I do find the 4in DMT stones too small for my personal taste. I prefer a 6x2 stone like the norton economy stone I have which I prefer using now days.

 

[David Martin]

There are several very competent sharpeners who visit this forum. What I would consider a pro sharpener.
Yes, Bob I agree. A 4" stone can do it but a 6" stone is a more roomy tool. I like to camp at the 8" size, a Norton India. For several reasons. DM

 

[dkb45]

The Sharpmaker gives room for improvement. You can get diamond or CBN stones for it, and add in ultra fine. Now you are set to handle everything and get an unnecessarily sharp edge. You could also look at getting something like a DMT Magna-Guide or Aligner if you primarily deal in high carbide steels.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

After reading your post I felt like seeing what I could do on a small stone free hand again since I haven't done so in a while or even practice sharpening in awhile. Pulled out the DMT course from my DMT Aligner which is 4in and tossed that on top of a drawer liner to hold it in place and went at it and was surprised by the result. I got it to being able to barely treetop arm hair (every once in awhile it treetop one, but not consistent). It was more based on my skill why it wasn't consistent, quite happy with it though I forgot how nice those DMT's were. Larger stone while helpful and makes life easier the smaller stones are just as capable if you know how to use it properly.

As a side note I do find the 4in DMT stones too small for my personal taste. I prefer a 6x2 stone like the norton economy stone I have which I prefer using now days.

I also have a set of 6" x 2" double-sided Dia-Sharp hones (DMT XC/C/F/EF) that are very comfortable using in-hand, save for their fairly substantial weight (1/4" steel plates). I usually reach for the smaller ones like my DC4 or credit card hones, just because I more often keep them in reach (often in my back pocket), so those are the ones that my hands are most comfortable using. There's something very nice in being able to sit on a bench outside on a nice day, and pull the pocket stone out and go to work. I've also got one of the 6" Norton Economy stones, as well as a downsized 4" version of the same stone from Ace Hardware, and those are very handy for touching up my stainless kitchen knives; the 'bite' they leave from the 'Fine' side is a nice fit for those blades, and it only takes maybe 5 passes or less on each side of the bevels. I have an 8" Duo-Sharp in C/F that I've saved for special jobs, like pairing it with my DMT Aligner clamp when I want to put a perfect new V-bevel on a blade; more so with very high-wear steels or very large/thick blades. That's a nice combination for those jobs.


David

 

[drooped]

Hey David, great question and I know it's sorta of a late post but literally bought my Sharpmaker today at a ranger surplus. Assuming that you're going to get the spdy. sharp online like at amazon or something, $65.00 is a solid price for a new one. The DVD it comes with actually taught me some new tricks on new ways to implement the rods, i.e a great file to tune-up worn-down screws, kitchen tools , scissors, Etc. To be honest, I can get great results from my limited diamond/ceramic stones, but I Have a really difficult time getting even bevels and harder steels performing the way I want them too. stones/tactics but never really bothered with it too much till I saw it yesterday at Ranger Surplus. I paid 20 bucks more than what you may be expecting so my humble opinion is GO FOR IT! Price is there, conviennece is too, and I think you're cutting yourself short about sharpening or profiling knives. Worst case scenario you can sell it and make a Profit most likely.

Anyway that just my experience after a one night use on my endura wave, and yeah vg is not at all hard to get a keen edge but I want to split a hair which is the downside. Ordering the EF stones might be pricey but I'm looking online for a good deal. I think it's very portable, as long as it's not riding in your pockets, : )

Good luck with your decision and if you do find any decent sites where I could order some extra fine rods to expand my kit, I'll be in your debt!! Lol

 

[drooped]

just curious for those who think 4" slates are too small, I never really had an obstacle sharpening my biggest fixed blade (7.5" buck 120) on a smiths double sided sharpener, but then again I think that's like 5-6in but extremely narrow. If you just accelate your passes on the down and up swing, it'll do the job clean enough to get a good toothy slicer ending at around 800-1000grit.

 

[willis]

I have several types and sizes of hones but the majority of my sharpening is done with the 4" fine india and coarse/fine DMT pocket stones in the center of this photo.Not fixing bevels or repairing major dings but touching up and maintenance.

 

[ak585479]

What are the CBN rods for the sharpmaker for? I have all the others and understand their purpose. Where does the CBN fit in?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

What are the CBN rods for the sharpmaker for? I have all the others and understand their purpose. Where does the CBN fit in?

There's a pretty detailed write-up of them on the Spyderco forum*, by a former BF member (Cliff Stamp). He seems to conclude they're somewhat coarser in performance than the Spyderco diamond rods. If so, they might be used before, or in place of the diamond rods, before going to the medium ceramic.

(* ...and unfortunately at the moment, Spyderco's forum is apparently down for a software upgrade.)

David

 

[ak585479]

There's a pretty detailed write-up of them on the Spyderco forum, by a former BF member (Cliff Stamp). He seems to conclude they're somewhat coarser in performance than the Spyderco diamond rods. If so, they might be used before, or in place of the diamond rods, before going to the medium ceramic.


David

Ok great thanks!

 

[ak585479]

There's a pretty detailed write-up of them on the Spyderco forum, by a former BF member (Cliff Stamp). He seems to conclude they're somewhat coarser in performance than the Spyderco diamond rods. If so, they might be used before, or in place of the diamond rods, before going to the medium ceramic.


David

Ok great thanks!

 

[AFAustin]

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, since I'm a novice and seemingly there are pro knife sharpening folks here.
However, it seems to me that the cheaper route to take is to use a lansky system to obtain the desirable edge profile for a particular blade.

Once you get the profile correct, put the lansky back in the closet. Everything from there on is hand done on a quality finishing stone.
I do not know why people think that there is no human error in sharpening systems. There is.
Pressures for one. Even the finest systems , in my opinion, unless I'm missing something, do not completely eliminate human error.
A cheap Lansky system will get you close enough to... perfect...(That is, not a perfect edge, but able to perfect an edge) an edge to the best of human abilities.

Below is a 25 degree edge profile/secondary bevel, worked up and polished out, on a Hollow ground blade.
Great for skinning, shaving and cutting your steak.....but not chopping wood. The edge was achieved by roughing in, with a simple, inexpensive Lansky then worked up and polished on a Translucent Arkansas stone followed by very extremely light stropping. Like 2 strokes on each side very lightly.

I have also found that quick touch ups with only a strop and aluminum oxide powder with a little oil does well.

Again, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I'm new here. And I certainly am not a professional knife sharpener, but I feel edges like this are attainable without spending 200.00 on something like a " wicked edge " sharpening system..
yes, it will shave your face.
Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

That is a very pretty knife.

Andrew