Difficulty sharpening new knife with new [to me] steel & grind.

Cereal_killer

Cereal_killer

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Apr 4, 2013
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I just got myself a mini-grip, my first hollow ground knife and first with 154CM, I had my sharpening setup out today doing some maintenance on other knives and I had planned on reprofiling it to a standard bevel of 20DPS (40 inclusive) because that is what I do all my knives at. I use a set of DMT Dia-sharp coarse and fine/extra fine (600/1200grit) plates and a spyderco fine ceramic stone (~2400grit), I have a leather strop but I don't use it and I don't have any compound, my edges arnt polished coming off the spyderco stone but they shave easily and cut news print so for what I need in a working edge they're more than satisfactory.

I'm just not having good results and I'm wondering what I should change first. What do you think my problem is mostly- the different steel or the hollow grind (convex edge) to normal bevel regrind? The steels I have and sharpen well are VG-10, 440C, H1, Sandvik, AUS-6/8, 8CR13MoV. Is 154CM tougher to sharpen than those?

From what I can tell I've accomplished the regrind, after going up threw the coarse and fine dia-sharp the knife is where it should be, its relitively sharp but is still quite coarse, a good burr has developed, its when I move to the extra fine DMT that things go south. It's not an angle problem, I'm holding that steady. I guess, but I'm no experts, I'm not even really that good...I guess I'm rolling the edge but why? What do I need to do different?
 
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I would finish it on a coarse or fine DMT, BM really doesn't take the hardness very high on that steel so going to a fine finish doesn't do it much good. Your next problem might be that using the diamond hones are just tearing up the edge too much so either use very light pressure or some other stones.
 
I literally worked on it for hours today. I tried going from the fine DMT to spyderco ceramic stone thinking the EF DMT was my issue but that didnt change the poor end results, I have a set of whetstones, do you think I should try a coarse/fine whetstone and see how that compairson to the coarse/fine diamond stone?
 
When I did a Benchmade (BM) Nitrous Blitz, I had to use 1000 and 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to get a satisfactory edge. I have a EZE-LAP 1200 grit diamond stone that I couldn't get to give the results I wanted. For some reason, the 1200 grit was turning out a duller edge than the 600 grit fine.
From what I can tell I've accomplished the regrind, after going up threw the coarse and fine dia-sharp the knife is where it should be, its relitively (sic) sharp but is still quite coarse, a good burr has developed, its when I move to the extra fine DMT that things go south. It's not an angle problem, I'm holding that steady. I guess, but I'm no experts, I'm not even really that good...I guess I'm rolling the edge but why? What do I need to do different?
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Bold for my emphasis. Will the knife shave arm hair smoothly off of the fine stone?
 
I just sharpened my regular grip yesterday. I have the two sided DMT stones (XC, C, F, EF) like you and had no problems.

The knife wasn't that bad. Copy paper was no problem but it wouldn't cut news or phone book paper. I skipped past XC and worked the C for just a few strokes. Moved to the F and worked out all the scratches. Here it would cut the paper, but not cleanly against the grain. I finished up on EF making one stroke, flipping and repeating to get rid of the somewhat frustrating burr. I knew a little burr was there due to it catching some when slicing. A few more strokes on the EF and all was done. After just a few passes on the strop it was polished (not mirror) and could slice my hair 3 or 4 times before it broke.

Ramble ramble.... Point is the DMT stones work great for 154cm. Light pressure, check as you work each stone, use bright light or magnification to see how its going, use the studs to judge angle. Don't give up, you'll find what works and love your sharper than scalpel edge. I have access to new in package scalpels and I know many people here can best new scalpel. Respect the 3" folding pocket scalpel!!! :)
 
Squashfan said:
...Bold for my emphasis. Will the knife shave arm hair smoothly off of the fine stone?
Click to expand...

It won't shave smoothly because of the still pretty coarse scratch pattern but I can "saw" hairs off my arm consistently and it cuts copy paper and card stock cleanly.

Guys thank you all for the help, we took the kids out today so I didnt get to sit down and work with it any but after dinner I'll be back at it and try all your suggestions.
 
knifenut1013 said:
You should be able to cleanly shave off a coarse DMT. A edge does not need to be taken to a fine grit to be sharp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VPCvd5hUVQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUfsHYm19KjjnUlpG8WVMZOA
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This man speaks the truth. I have knives, that are polished, and shine like new money. I also have knives, that look like a hacksaw blade. Guess what.......they will both shave like hell. That was a tough thing to understand for me at first. But it seems when you do, it unlocks a LOT of doors for you, and your skill multiplies by a million.
 
I was thinking the same thing, it couldn't hurt to try.
Once you raise a burr forget the fine stone and try going straight to the leather strop and see if you can remove it.
Maybe drag it lightly over a piece of wood before the strop. You could end up with a nice toothy razor sharp edge.
 
Ok guys it took a few hours of experimentation after dinner this evening but I've gotten it nice and sharp, I adjusted the angle some ending up about 10 dps, I also concentrated on the coarse and fine stones, reprofiling on the coarse and moving to the fine till it was shaving and I couldn't detect a burr scraping it on my fingernail, I then finished it up on the spyderco stone and finally got the results I want.

On a releated note what would you suggest I add to my setup / skill-set next, the proper compounds for the strope and learning how to use it, or the ultra fine (~5k) spyderco stone?
 
CK, I am not being funny, when I tell you, that you need them both. The UF rods (I own them), hone to a really fine edge. But however, I have recently started to use compound on a strop (still use bare to finish). I use a cheap compound right now that I got at Home Depot. It's yellow, and meant for stainless steel, and pretty crappy at best. However, it has taken my ability to put a mirror edge on a blade, to a new level.

My arsenal right now, is DMT's, xc, c, f, xf. The c and f are the picks of that litter. I have a SM, with all 4 sets of rods. And I have a brown Spyderco bench stone. Funny thing, the F DMT, and the Brown stone, are both 600 grit. But they seem to yield a different edge.

I think my next purchase, is going to be the big XF bench stone from Syderco, followed closely by a diamond steel from DMT.

As for my technique that I am using right now, here is what I do. I lay the bevel down, to around 25 degrees freehand. Then go throught the progression of stones. I then strop the hell out of it, to get it good and polished. The last thing I do, is put a micro on it at 40 with the SM. I usually use the brown rods, unless I am trying to just show off, in which case I go through, to the XF rods. Hope this helps a little. Josh
 
Cereal_killer said:
Ok guys it took a few hours of experimentation after dinner this evening but I've gotten it nice and sharp, I adjusted the angle some ending up about 10 dps, I also concentrated on the coarse and fine stones, reprofiling on the coarse and moving to the fine till it was shaving and I couldn't detect a burr scraping it on my fingernail, I then finished it up on the spyderco stone and finally got the results I want.

On a releated note what would you suggest I add to my setup / skill-set next, the proper compounds for the strope and learning how to use it, or the ultra fine (~5k) spyderco stone?
Click to expand...

Hey man, I had a similar problem with a mini grip. I finally re profiled it on dmt stones to about 12-14 dps and then put a 40 degree micro bevel with the sharpmaker and it was as hair popping as any of my other steels. I think mine just was too obtuse and needed that low angle re profile. Sounds like you already discovered this solution, but 10 dps might be a little thin. I dunno, use it and see if it holds up. It might roll on you.
 
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