Diminishing Returns

Shorttime

Shorttime

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Messages
4,127
Hey, look. Another two-word title!

I started out with $20 knives, because I didn't know any better.

When I bought my first $80 knife, I noticed the difference. But not such much, as I got toward the $200 mark. There were some details, slightly better fit and finish, but not the massive difference with that second price point jump. I was wondering if this is a typical experience for other Bladeforums members? And at what point do you stop paying for better overall quality, and start paying for special steels and other.... "boutique" features?

I know that customs are a different thing, altogether. So the question is mostly regarding production knives.
 
It's a little hard to judge, as most of us want slightly different things for our knives. If you're after cutting geometry, anything beyond an Opinel is probably past the point of diminishing returns, but if you want absurd edge retention you'll have to pony up a bit. Personally, I probably hit what I would consider to be my point of diminishing returns at around $100. I'll happily spend more than that to get a combination of features I like all in the same knife, but I acknowledge that the improvements that I'm getting then aren't quite as meaningful and may even begin to fall more into the realm of personal preference.
 
Loosely speaking, you can get OK steel OR handle materials by... about $40? You can get premium steel with inexpensive handles between $70-$150. I’m talking M390 and G10 by then. You can get into titanium handles with premium steel by $150ish. By the time you hit $250, you’ve got multiple options with milled ti handles, inlays, top end steels, ceramic bearings, etc.

Anything above that, you’re paying for “special”, which usually means time invested and truly exceptional quality of fit and finish, striking designs by noted designers, etc.

So, yes. Material returns diminish at a very reasonable price point.
 
There are certainly diminishing returns, but you buy to the level you are happy with and don't worry about the benefit per dollar. I can't get a Sebenza for $40. If I want a Sebenza I have to pay a Sebenza price.
 
Well, lets be truthful, right? It's pocket jewelry and damn straight!

Speaking about folders, it's an indisputable fact that most people who use knives on a regular basis have what many of us would consider to be a low-end, cheaper pocket knife. Almost everyone I know in a trade or farming carries a Kershaw or Buck 110. They use them many more times a day than I use my expensive knife with M4 steel and they're not really at that much of a disadvantage. If it was a necessity to have a better folding knife, many of them would.

So, carry what makes you happy. Trying to discern the value you're getting out of a knife becomes and exercise that exists for its own sake, more than a practical exercise.
 
Shorttime said:
Hey, look. Another two-word title!

I started out with $20 knives, because I didn't know any better.

When I bought my first $80 knife, I noticed the difference. But not such much, as I got toward the $200 mark. There were some details, slightly better fit and finish, but not the massive difference with that second price point jump. I was wondering if this is a typical experience for other Bladeforums members? And at what point do you stop paying for better overall quality, and start paying for special steels and other.... "boutique" features?

I know that customs are a different thing, altogether. So the question is mostly regarding production knives.
Click to expand...

The line between production and custom is pretty blurry. I have not hit the point of diminishing returns yet and I have an $800+ dollar custom fixed blade. I'm not sure where production knives begin and end because I have at least 4 Hinderers and it seems like they are cranked out, but they are very very good. I'd trust my Hinderer locks more than I would my ZTs but the ZTs (although I've had ONE problem knife) are very good too. Is a Hinderer considered custom anymore? I don't think so, and I've seen $2500 Hinderers which were pre-production one-offs.

I'd say that by the time you hit $150 to $250, you have most of the components to the better knives, but that you may not see all of them until you hit $500+ per knife. A $500+ knife is a substantial investment and it shows everywhere on the knife(folder). Fixed blades are a bit cheaper and I'd say decent custom knives start around $350+.

"And at what point do you stop paying for better overall quality, and start paying for special steels and other.... "boutique" features?" Probably over $350 for fixed blades and over $500 for folders.
 
I'd say around $150 for most mass produced production knives. At that price, you can get a pretty nice, and damn functional knife that will last your lifetime (And your son's). The rest is pretty much just window dressing.

What bothers me is that not too long ago, that level used to be ~ $80. :/
 
To the OP - Stop worrying about price and start buying and collecting fixed blades from the custom makers on Blade Forums. $350 to $500 is cheap at the price !!!! And, just as important, we knife makers need to make a living, too.
 
That's why I try to get lightly used knives that are mint. you save a lot of money and still get premium features. just got a mint zt 0393 for 153.00. At that price you cant lose and if kept in similar condition I can get rid of it easily at that price or slightly more.
 
I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for in the knife world. When I got into knives a few years ago just like you OP I started out with cheaper knives like the SOG fielder just for it to quickly fall apart. Then I moved up to CRKT and I found a huge jump in quality from the lock mechanism to how nice it deployed. I was quite happy with my CRKT's for many years. Well that changed because I finally bought a Spyderco PM2, and again I feel like it's a huge jump in quality. I like the blade steel, the lock is awesome, and it just feels so silky to open. In a way I kinda feel like I wish I could have skipped my whole CRKT phase and started collecting Spyderco's lol. But that might change if I ever got something more exclusive.

On the other hand I also think there are great values to be had out their at every ones budget and needs. For my one friend what he enjoys the most is finding a cost effective knife that has all the features he wants out of a expensive knife.
 
It’s directionally proportional to your budget. If your budget allows you to spend 500.00 on a knife, then no, you may not think the point of diminishing return is reached yet. IMO,If your budget doesn’t allow you to spend a bunch of money on one knife, it would be silly to go beyond that price point. Everyone has different points of diminishing return based on their budget.
For me, I’m here to have fun and enjoy knives, if I can afford it, I’ll buy it because I can. Down the road, I’ll probably lose a butt load on getting rid of it. Sometimes, it’s worth the loss.
 
I think Ajack60 Ajack60 pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I find the point of diminishing return around the $150-200 mark for production folders. There are knives I like both above and below that range, of course.
 
All depends on the feature requirements, but generally it's a matter of value. If you think of your dollars as points that are being put into certain stats of the knife, it can help you mentally break down what you're getting for the money. Certain features are difficult to do cheap, because they're inherently a complicating step. But if you manage to find a product that is a close match to your requirements, with no "points" spent on stuff you don't want or need, and that tool is priced fairly for the materials, features, and labor involved, then it's going to be a good value. Value can be found at any price point. People may say that a thing is worth whatever someone is willing to spend on it, but if someone spends $150 on an MTech (and some people do, apparently--scan eBay's sold items sometime and be amazed at what some real got garbage sells for for unknown reasons) then that guy got a poor value, because that same $150 could have been used to purchase something that was better in every possible respect, OR could have bought a whole bunch of that same knife from a different source (hey--there's no accounting for taste!)

I'm a simple guy. I like knives with efficient geometries in pretty inexpensive steels without a lot of glitz and glam factor, and I don't need the latest and greatest in mechanisms. As such, there are a lot of quality knives in the $4-$50 range (yes, $4 -- not a typo) that are quite good for my needs and preferences, and a surprising number of them are from European or North American makers.
 
Thanks, fellas. I've been looking at knives in the 200-300 range, but I haven't seen anything that stands out, and it's good to know that my impression of the production market is more or less correct.

Tim, I appreciate your effort to raise awareness of the fixed blade makers here on Bladeforums.

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I have a personal understanding of the work it takes to make a fixed blade, even a modest one. Keeping everything square, flat, and symmetrical, is a match for the patience of Saints and Masters, alike. Although my skills are far from the mastery that makers here demonstrate, I can appreciate how it must feel to step off that precipice.

My personal preference is a 3" blade. It requires some artifice to put three inches of useable cutting edge into a fixed blade which can also carry comfortably, without alarming the delicate people I have to deal with, at times.

Quite simply, a folding knife is a more efficient use of space, and fulfills my cutting needs admirably. I appreciate, I understand.... I just have different priorities.
 
There are plenty of decent quality knives under $30, so it depends on the point of view. I tend to stay under $200.
 
I have just about reached my limit. I recently bought a gen 6 3” XM-18 spanto. For me, it’s not so much the price but the self induced hype. I tend to convince myself that this one or that one is “the one” and crave the thrill of stalking the shipment by checking the tracking info. Within a few weeks the thrill is gone. I have sold several, at a loss, to some coworkers and gave a few away to a friend.
 
The diminishing return point will vary by person, their comfort level with $, and their experience with knives. Experience is important. I was comfortable with sub-$50 knives for years and still am with SAKs. (Carry one every day.) I like a better knife, but don't allow myself to bump up above about $200 with a folder. I am pretty comfortable with this price point, but the bulk of my knives were priced under $150. I don't yearn for a $400+ knife regardless of the brand, reputation, or features.

I just bought two Rough Rider slip joints for about $25 total for both. I like them.
 
agree with Ajack60 Ajack60 on this. The point of diminishing returns depends on the individual and even for the same person it could change over time.
 
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