Dimond sharpeners, needed?

Josh K

Josh K

Joined
Sep 29, 2008
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I've recently gotten a couple knives in S30V (one S90V). Also, most of my Spyderco's are VG-10. I've seen a couple of people complain about the materials needed to sharpen (most say diamonds).

Now, I'm hooked on my Lansky, though I might pop for a Sharpmaker, plus a set of the ultra-fine ceramics. 4/5 hones on my Lansky are alumina-oxide-whatever. Bonded man-made stuffs. The ceramic is 1000 grit, and I love the finish it puts on my knives.

Would buying another set of hones (diamond) be worth it? Or should this current set last me for a while? How high of a grit can you go before you're going to need benchstones and a really steady hand?
 
knifenut1013 said:
Your lansky should work but with the S90V it will be very slow without the diamond hones.
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It's not like I'd be reprofiling the edge, just touching it up every now and again. Can you get diamond hones that fit the lansky in 1000-2000 grit range?

I was also looking at the Edge Pro knife sharpener, but I don't want to lay out $150-$200 just yet.
 
I would buy the deluxe lansky set (black, red, green, blue, and yellow hones) and buy a medium diamond stone seperate. I have never needed diamonds to sharpen anything (aus6 all the way to S30V). I have found that diamonds wear away the blade steel faster than normal stones.
 
Jake Bauer said:
I would buy the deluxe lansky set (black, red, green, blue, and yellow hones) and buy a medium diamond stone seperate. I have never needed diamonds to sharpen anything (aus6 all the way to S30V). I have found that diamonds wear away the blade steel faster than normal stones.
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That's what I got. I'm thinking of getting course/medium/fine diamond hones, along with the sapphire fine. I've got some cheapo kitchen knife sets I've abused to no end, and I kinda feel like fixing them. I tried the extra course (black) and it didn't do much. If anything it seemed to wear the hone away a bit.... :confused:
 
I think ceramics will be harder than any steel, but it might not cut too fast. For touch-ups, though, I know it works for VG10 at least.
 
I've never liked diamond hones of any kind. Including DMT which are some of the best. For me... the best stones I've ever owned are a medium and fine set of the Spyderco Pro Files. I also own the spyrderco bench stones in medium and fine. I have the Ultra Fines... but you might not want to waste your time. I didn't notice they got my blades any sharper. Medium, Fine, and a Good Strop will take care of 99% of all your sharpening. You might want to get a good coarse just incase you ding your edge. I've spent hundreds of dollars on sharpening stuff... Including an Edge Pro... All were nice... but the Spyderco Medium and Fine stones are all I've ever needed.
 
I love diamonds and pretty much only use them. I like toothier edges and these work well (rarely use ultra fine). I say get the diamonds if you are using D2, CPM or others; as it will not be money wasted, and they last forever- my keychain DMT sharpeners (coarse, medium and fine) have sharpened thousands of knives and are going strong.
 
I hear that the high volume of vanadium carbides in S90V can be damaging to even ceramic stones. Unsure of this, but diamond stones will cut faster at least, though I prefer ceramic over everything else.
 
There has been some debate on the effect of vanadium carbides on sharpening. Sal says the SharpMaker rods will do the job on S90V, and he makes both, so who am I to argue. The very few references I have found that list the abrasive hardness of various materials are not 100% consistent, but they all list vanadium carbide as being harder than aluminum oxide, which I believe is what the SharpMaker rods are made from. Two of the references listed vanadium carbide as harder than silicon carbide, one listed it as being slightly softer. Since I switched to diamond hones twenty years ago it really doesn't make any difference to me. I do know that I have not noticed any of the chipping problems others have reported on high vanadium steels.
 
The the cheap $25 Lansky kit works with VG-10 and S30V in my experience, but it is slow going, especially if the knife has never seen a lansky before. An extra-coarse stone helps. Most of my knives have a blade geometry such that I find it easier to use the sharpmaker on most of them than to waste the time grinding a new edge profile on a Lansky. Even if you have a great deal of grinding to do - maybe a dent or a chip or a dead tip - using a circular motion on the sharpmaker is faster than filing away with a Lansky.
 
I could pick up a Sharpmaker set. It's something I've looked at, and heard tons about. ;) If the knife is harder then the stone then it won't do much for it right? What about the non-diamond (and also non ceramic) stones in the Lansky set? What are those made out of?
 
The non diamond lansky stones look like reconstituted rock - which is what I think most sharpening stones are made of these days. (The topic is hard to find information on, so I can't say for sure)
Regular stones are cheap, but they tend to wear so that the sharpening surface becomes concave. This is especially true if you apply too much pressure while sharpening. Diamond stones remove material faster, and are also sometimes useful for removing the concavity from a worn out, more conventional sharpening surface. However, they're also vulnerable to using too much pressure - it can dislodge the diamond grit, and then you're essentially trying to sharpen a knife with a steel plate. Not very effective.
I'm a fan of the high-alumina ceramics used in the sharpmaker, since they seem to work quite effectively - especially on carbon steels, but also on the high-wear tool steels like D2. On top of this, (they seem in my experience) to be the most wear resistant, and not as sensitive to pressure as the other types of sharpening medium.
 
missin_hobo said:
The non diamond lansky stones look like reconstituted rock - which is what I think most sharpening stones are made of these days. (The topic is hard to find information on, so I can't say for sure)
Regular stones are cheap, but they tend to wear so that the sharpening surface becomes concave. This is especially true if you apply too much pressure while sharpening. Diamond stones remove material faster, and are also sometimes useful for removing the concavity from a worn out, more conventional sharpening surface. However, they're also vulnerable to using too much pressure - it can dislodge the diamond grit, and then you're essentially trying to sharpen a knife with a steel plate. Not very effective.
I'm a fan of the high-alumina ceramics used in the sharpmaker, since they seem to work quite effectively - especially on carbon steels, but also on the high-wear tool steels like D2. On top of this, (they seem in my experience) to be the most wear resistant, and not as sensitive to pressure as the other types of sharpening medium.
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I love the little ceramic stick setup I've got, but they don't go down to a low enough grit for me (300's). Full range of ceramics anyone?
 
Josh K said:
I could pick up a Sharpmaker set. It's something I've looked at, and heard tons about. ;) If the knife is harder then the stone then it won't do much for it right? What about the non-diamond (and also non ceramic) stones in the Lansky set? What are those made out of?
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Make no mistake about it, the aluminum oxide ceramic rods of the SharpMaker are harder than any steel. H-1 has tested as high as Rc 68, ZDP-189 runs about Rc 65, S90V about Rc 62 and SharpMaker rods would be around Rc 93.
The question is not "are the rods harder than the steel?", but "are the rods harder than all the carbides IN the steel?" As near as I can tell, the answer is "no, they aren't". The question then becomes "is the volume of very hard carbides in the steel sufficient to cause problems if the steel is sharpened on abrasives that are softer than those carbides?" On S30V, I don't think so. On higher vanadium steels, I think it may, based on tales from others about the difficulty of sharpening on ceramics versus my own experience sharpening on diamonds.
 
yablanowitz said:
Make no mistake about it, the aluminum oxide ceramic rods of the SharpMaker are harder than any steel. H-1 has tested as high as Rc 68, ZDP-189 runs about Rc 65, S90V about Rc 62 and SharpMaker rods would be around Rc 93.
The question is not "are the rods harder than the steel?", but "are the rods harder than all the carbides IN the steel?" As near as I can tell, the answer is "no, they aren't". The question then becomes "is the volume of very hard carbides in the steel sufficient to cause problems if the steel is sharpened on abrasives that are softer than those carbides?" On S30V, I don't think so. On higher vanadium steels, I think it may, based on tales from others about the difficulty of sharpening on ceramics versus my own experience sharpening on diamonds.
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How hard are the carbides? Rc 93 and I can see why some people buy ceramic kitchen knives. :eek: That's hard stuff.

Diamonds for my S90V then? What about D2? ZDP is high carbon, but is it high carbide?
 
ZDP has an insane carbide volume, but they are realtively soft chromium carbides rather than the very hard vanadium carbides. As I said before, the references I have accessed are not completely consistent, and none of them were giving hardness values on the Rockwell c scale. I've not yet found a reference that really tells me what I'd like to know about the relative hardness of all these materials. I do know that none of them are harder than diamond, which makes it a no-brainer for me to decide what to sharpen on.
 
yablanowitz said:
ZDP has an insane carbide volume, but they are realtively soft chromium carbides rather than the very hard vanadium carbides. As I said before, the references I have accessed are not completely consistent, and none of them were giving hardness values on the Rockwell c scale. I've not yet found a reference that really tells me what I'd like to know about the relative hardness of all these materials. I do know that none of them are harder than diamond, which makes it a no-brainer for me to decide what to sharpen on.
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Alright. New Lansky hones are on my Christmas list. As well as a Sharpmaker with the ultra fine hones. :thumbup:
 
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