Discussion on tip up or tip down carry?

desmobob

desmobob

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I imagine this subject has been discussed before. (But I did a forum search and came up with more than 1200 responses. A whole lot of posts contain the words "tip" "up" and "down." :eek: )

I'm right-handed and carry my folders clipped inside the right rear pocket of my pants. My EDC is a BM AFCK or Mini-AFCK (or sometimes a Kershaw Leek, Scallion or Chive). They all came set up for tip-down carry with the clip attached so the knife rides in my RR pocket with the blade toward my right side. It seems very natural and quick to draw and open these knives in one easy motion.

I just bought a Spyderco Native III (my first Spyderco!)but haven't received it yet. Looking at the photos of it, I can see it will not be possible to configure the clip for tip-down carry. To experiment with learning the new carry style I'll have to use with the Native, I stuck my AFCK in my pocket in the manner the Native will ride and was surprised to find that it may be just as easy to draw the knife from a tip-up carry.

Is the tip-up or -down merely a personal preference or are there other important reasons to choose one or the other?

Thanks for any insight,
Bob Scott
 
I imagine this subject has been discussed before. (But I did a forum search and came up with more than 1200 responses. A whole lot of posts contain the words "tip" "up" and "down." )
Click to expand...

And since you're to lazy to try and read a few of them, you now propose to add a couple hundred more????

As your search shows, the topic has been discussed at great lengths. I doubt that there have been any major new developments in the state of the art that might require new discussion. Please read at least some of the existing material. If you still have a question after that, then post it.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
And since you're to lazy to try and read a few of them, you now propose to add a couple hundred more????
Click to expand...

What I was trying to say was my search keywords were so common in other posts that I got over 1200 hits, the first three pages of which I looked at had nothing to do with a discussion of tip up vs. tip down carry. I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear.

But thanks very much for your thoughtful reply. (By the way; that would be "too lazy" not "to lazy.") Thankfully, most people participating in this forum are more helpful and polite than you are.

Take it easy,
Bob Scott
 
Before the advent of pocket clips and manual one-hand-opening knives (such as Spyderco and Benchmade) most folding knives generally had a rather stiff spring to keep the blade closed in your pocket. The exception to this was automatics (aka switchblades) which were spring-loaded and held closed by a latch mechanism. Back then I had some unfortunate incidents where a switchblade came open in my pocket and either sliced my pants when I pulled the knife or my hand when I reached in. This sensitized me to the issue of a tip-up knife opening in a pocket.

Now the question is "what happens to a tip-up knife if I jump down a few stairs or off of a rock?" The newer knives have either lighter retention springs or modest ball-detents to hold the blade in. If there is room in your pocket for the blade to open it will do so in come cercumstances. I only use a tip-up knife in a special pocket arrangement where it can't open. I usually cut out the bottom of the watch pocket in my jeans and clip these knives into the narrow watch pocket.

So tip up is dangerous.
 
Hey Bob,

I EDC'd an AFCK Tip-Down for years. I recently (a couple of months ago) got an 806D2 AFCK which is configured for Tip-Up carry.

I'd have to say that Tip-Up makes more sense for me and seems to work better. It's just smoother and, for me, positions the knife in a more optimal position for easy one hand opening.

One potential problem that I can see (but have not experienced) is that if, in Tip-Up mode the blade opens slightly it might catch on your pocket (or your hand) on the draw, but theoretically The Axis Lock of the 806D2 (and to a much greater degree with the Lockback of the Spyderco) keeps the blade closed in your pocket.

But on the other side of the coin the Liner-Lock of the older AFCK's allowed the knife to open slightly in the Tip-Down mode also (I had this happen a few times...no cuts though...).

Good luck,

-John
 
Jeff,

That watch pocket idea is great. I wish I'd thought of that years ago.

Thanks,

-John
 
Originally posted by Jeff Clark
Now the question is "what happens to a tip-up knife if I jump down a few stairs or off of a rock?" The newer knives have either lighter retention springs or modest ball-detents to hold the blade in. If there is room in your pocket for the blade to open it will do so in come cercumstances. I only use a tip-up knife in a special pocket arrangement where it can't open.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jeff. This is the kind of information I was looking for....
My AFCK definitely has a light enough detent engagement and a heavy enough blade to open by itself under the right circumstances. Being carried tip-down, and with the blade against the edge of my pocket, this is pretty much a non-issue (I think). Tip up would be a whole different ballgame.

I'll think carefully about how and where I carry the tip-up Spyderco.

Thanks again,
Bob Scott
 
Originally posted by blastjv
One potential problem that I can see (but have not experienced) is that if, in Tip-Up mode the blade opens slightly it might catch on your pocket (or your hand) on the draw, but theoretically The Axis Lock of the 806D2 (and to a much greater degree with the Lockback of the Spyderco) keeps the blade closed in your pocket.
Click to expand...

Hi John,

I have never tried an Axis lock and was very interested in the BM 806D2 myself. When I saw that the clip was at "the wrong end" compared to what I was used to and couldn't be reversed, I decided to pass on that knife. I was willing to try the Spyderco as my first experience with tip-up carry at less than half the price, though.

I almost forgot about it being a lockback vs. a liner or frame lock. I guess this means it will be a little stiffer opening, and less of a tip-up carry hazard, as you inferred. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much... :rolleyes:

Take it easy,
Bob Scott
 
I have an early 806D2, but the newer ones can be configured for Tip-Up OR Tip-Down Carry.

The Axis Lock does keep the blade closed but it does NOT do so as well as a Lockback.

I've never handled a Native, but the Enduras, Delicas and Dragonflies I've handled provide a fair amount of resistance to being opened (AND to opening accidentally). It was not a 'problem' for me, but my wife hated the Endura I got her mainly for that reason and was MUCH happier with the 551 Griptilian I traded it for.

Hope this helps,

-John
 
For many people, me included, tip up leads to a more natural and faster draw. You can train to draw tip down, probably equally well, but training notwithstanding, tip up is better for me.

I was lucky for a long time and never had a blade opening problem. My first bad experience was about 5 years ago. You have to keep your folders in tune [nice and tight, but not too tight] and even then you have to be careful. Actually, if you are careful you can use a partial opening in the pocket for an even faster draw, but I wouldn't want to have to do that under stress.

I know which of my knives have a tendency to open in my pocket and with those I'm careful to keep the blade flush against the edge of the pocket. Still, as far as I'm concerned, tip up is faster; tip down is safer.
 
Don't think any of three current EDCs(though only one has option) would have problem with tip up, as they're all nice tight lockups, and I can't get blade to come out without using said thmumb stud or hole, but I'm just too used to tip down. carried that way my whole life, trained for it and it's just natural now.
 
I too only carry tip up for fast opening on the draw...don't even know if I could open it if it was upside down, definantly not near as fast.
 
Bruz,
I'll show you that both are equal when we hook up.

I've been bit good on tip up three times and won't carry linerlocks made that way anymore. I wikll always wonder why I didn't learn on the first stab to the thumb and have come to the conclusion now that I didn't want to give up carrying the ones I had. But I have.

I'm now prone to carrying lockbacks [ two enduras at the moment ] or the Karambit Tarani folder.


Brownie
 
Tip-up is thought to be faster on the draw...it's also easier to do certain types of withdrawals (e.g. Michael Janich's trick for withdrawal into reverse grip...though I can do it with my chunky tip-down MOD ;) )...of course, the Emerson Wave will only work in tip-up configuration.

That having been said, I have a strong preference for tip-down...I've cut myself twice from tip-up knives opening in my pocket...even if the knife doesn't cut you, it is more likely to get hung up and open as you withdraw (especially with a thumbdisk...not so much with a Spyderhole) this could cause quite a problem if the tip of the knife gets caught up in your pants and you can't withdraw when you need the knife most (oh yeah, I cut a shirt like that too :rolleyes:

Bottom line...the advantages of tip-up do not outweigh the risks for me.

RL
 
Looks like of got the right bunch together here for this question :)

For "tactical" purposes :), I've never completely trusted folders. I've found fixed blades to be vastly superior in speed of deployment and lock solidity, obviously. That's especially important for me because at my advanced state of decrepitude, I have to rely heavily on back slash techniques. Even when I was less decrepit, that was the style I felt most comfotable with.
Drawing is no problem: carry is. But once that's solved, the fixed blade is, has to be, at least equal to the best folder. polkowski's Kaspers are incredible. So is Nealy, but his knives don't have polkowski's mass in the blade ort the handle. Al's knives really are somethging special in design that way.

Whaddya think?
 
For years, all my folders (not like there were dozens of them, though) were tip-up carry. Basically, these were a few Delicas, a Walker linerlock and a Benchmade Mini-Griptilian. I was aware of the existence of tip-down knives but they did not appeal to me so I didn't get one.

My first tip-down knife was an AFCK I got recently, and I got used to it enough that I don't mind it. A few days ago I got my second, third and fourth EDC tip-down knives: a Kershaw Vapor (such a great bargain of a knife!), a Gerber Mini Paraframe and a Paraframe. I understand that there are risks of in-pocket opening with tip-up knives, and that those risks are minimized with tip-down, but I still believe that tip-up is more intuitive. The hand grabs the knife in the back jeans pocket, and it is in exactly the orientation it will need to be when the knife is held in the hand a moment later. None of this silly holding-by-the-pivot-and-letting-the-knife-swivel-down-into-the-palm nonsense, which is necessary with tip-down.

I slightly prefer tip-up, because with the moderate-sized knives I have in that configuration (Delica and Walker) I have never had them open inadvertently, so tip-up does definitely seem more ergonomically correct.

---Jeffrey
 
Over in the Camillus Forum, there has been a series of threads, with one running at the moment, on converting the CUDA MAXX 5.5 to tip up carry since the knife was designed by Darryl Ralph and produced by Camillus as tip down. I have one and I cannot imagine carrying one in tip up mode, not with that blade. The blade is too long and too heavy to chance it opening kinetically, and once it starts, it would be "Katie bar the door." I have stated this in the Camillus Forum on more than one occasion and have also noted that both Darryl Ralph and Will Fennell(of Camillus) have said that they advise against converting the 5.5 to tip up carry for safety reasons. I understand that they are concerned about legal liability matters, but that does not, in and of itself, make their advice worthless.

I have had two knives try to open in my pocket, both because I had let the pivot screws become too loose, and I have been fortunate to escape with only two cut pockets. The first was a Spydie Gunting that caught its "Horn" on the way in and started to open, even in tip down mode, and the second was a Spydie Salsa that is, in its basic form, tip up only and started to open in my pocket. I now make it a regular practice to check the tension on the pivot screws on my various knives that have adjustable pivot screws, but I still heavily prefer tip down carry for security reasons.

As an aside, can you imagine the new 7" CUDA MAXX in tip up carry mode? Scary!
 
A "switchblade" that locks closed and springs open with the push of a button is the logical solution for safe tip up carry and fast, one handed deployment. Not just for "tactical" purposes, but for camping, climbing, sailing, kayaking, canoeing: anywhere that you need to access your knife quickly, with one hand. I know I certainly could use one like that for all of the above purposes. Our asinine lawmakers think everyone who wants an auto must be a West Side Story gang wannabe.
 
Tip up means deployment of tool in one fluid motion, tip down means you have to align the tool just right for deployment, granted all this takes milliseconds, but thats all the time it takes between life and death or that next slice of cheese. I'm sure you can train yourself do be just as fast on tip down or tip up, but for me and many others, tip up just seems more natural.
 
Tip up means deployment of tool in one fluid motion, tip down means you have to align the tool just right for deployment, granted all this takes milliseconds, but thats all the time it takes between life and death or that next slice of cheese. I'm sure you can train yourself do be just as fast on tip down or tip up, but for me and many others, tip up just seems more natural.
 
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