Dishwasher Safe Handle Materials

Daniel Koster

Daniel Koster

www.kosterknives.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
20,978
I'd like to build up a list of the materials that knifemakers use for knives that are "dishwasher-safe". By that, I mean that they can take a cycle through the dishwasher every once in a while, not hold up under daily onslaught of abuse. Also, the material has to be readily available to the common Joe knifemakin' enthusiast.

I'll put it in a list at the top of this thread in the order of most preferred, etc. That way, it can be a reference to anybody interested. Hopefully, it will be a help to new and old guys alike, and might even save on future search engine submissions.

***UPDATED 2/5/03***
[not in order yet]

1.Micarta (stay clear of ivory linen)
2.G10
3.Carbon Fiber
4.Pakkawood
5.Dymondwood
6.Stabilized wood
7.Corian
8.Bakelite
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
 
I use pakkawood on occassion.:eek:
As far as the other goes.
Micarta
G10
Carbon Fiber
Pakkawood,et al
Stabilized wood.
Not necessarily in that order, and I wouldn't do the woods very much.

The dishwasher is going to really dull any of these materials down, but they are easily polished.
And I would like to add; I really don't think that any good knife should be subjected to a dishwasher, at any time, nor should they be left to soak in dishwater. I won't even do that with factory blades.
 
Acetal resins like delrin are known for moisture and chemical resistance. Precision interior components in dishwashers are often made out of Acetal. At least they were on the last dishwasher my company designed.

ABS is also pretty good for moisture and chemical resistance but it scratches easily unless it is extensively modified (chemically modified, glass filled or mineral filled). Polyamides (PA, Nylon, Zytel) are better at withstanding physical stress but are hygroscopic (they tend to absorb moisture and swell).

Of course these are the properties of the basic unmodified materials. A plastic chemist could mix them to give you the properties you want.

HTH
 
Its not so much the water that is bad, I think the drying cycle does even more damage than the wash cycle. I made my wife a knife with the handle made of ivory linen maicata. Its still together but don't look anything new anymore.
 
It is a combination of factors (in no specific order):
- Moisture
- Chemicals (detergent)
- Heat

For most plastics, bone, ivory and wood, these are the most destructive factors. The resin in the micarta may be quite chemical and moisture resistant, but grinding through it opens up unprotected fibers to the hot, wet, chemical bath of the dishwasher. What you should be loking for is some way to seal the micarta up after grinding.

Remember, the purpose of a dishwasher is to break up and dissolve oils and organic matter.
 
I've seen some kitchen cutlery advertised as 'dishwasher safe' with handles of Bakelite brand of phenolic resins & plastics. Since the inner walls of the more expensive dishwashers are made of stainless steel, how about knives with stainless steel handles? Maybe fancy inlays of stainless on Bakelite or vice-versa?
 
Hi there
For some unknown reason(well to me) my previous ID is banned on these forums but I thought I should sign up again so people can be careful with Bakelite.
6 months ago or more I made a knife with a Bakelite handle. 18 - 20 hours after I was the sickest I can ever remember in my life.
Symptoms
extreme dizziness, heart rate increased a real lot, and a real lot of vomiting.
I was wearing a 2 filter mask with particle filters instead of the ones for vapours. Also I wasn't wearing gloves.
I did a little reading after about bakelite and it can be bad stuff to work
When hot it can give off carbolic acid?? and formaldrahyde vapours
which can lead to permanet liver damage and heart damage
http://www.oehha.ca.gov/air/chronic_rels/pdf/108952.pdf
this wasnt the page that I found originally specifically about bakelite but it will give you a rough idea or what it can do if you arnt properly protected
Since my sickness wasnt till 18 hours plus my dose that I got wasn't that high. I should have called an ambulance probably but I had no idea what it was from
Stephen
part time knifemaker from Down Under
spelling bad at 2.27 AM
 
Quote" I was the sickest I can ever remember in my life.
Symptoms
extreme dizziness, heart rate increased a real lot, and a real lot of vomiting.
I was wearing a 2 filter mask with particle filters instead of the ones for vapours. Also I wasn't wearing gloves."


Yeah, that's what phenolic resin materials can do. I had the same thing happen to me 20+ years ago, and it made me sensitive to many thing I wasn't before. Micarta, Pakkawood, bakelite, Dymondwood, and a host of others, are all in the phenolic resin family.
You definitely need a respirator with two stage filters, organic vapor/formaldehyde. Cotton prefilters on top of those, will help the cartridges last longer.
When you are finished grinding the stuff, vacuum yourself, AND the shop. Phenol can kill cats also. It's not really good for any living thing. If you exhaust this dust out to your yard, it will kill grass, and anything else it comes in contact with.
Good idea to take a shower as soon as possible, and throw your clothes in the washing machine immediately.
I like the various Micarta's, but they have evil side effects.
:eek:

Edited to add; There used to be a very popular reddish orange soap on the market called Lifebouy. It smelled just like Micarta when it is ground. It disappeared from the store shelves in the late 50's, early 60's. Turns out it was full of Phenol. :eek: . Check out the link in the post above. At least two generations of people were poisoned by that stuff(soap).
 
Sorry I mentioned Bakelite - had no idea of its toxicity! Is it stable / safe on finished knife handles?
 
Originally posted by Clydetz
Sorry I mentioned Bakelite - had no idea of its toxicity! Is it stable / safe on finished knife handles?
Click to expand...

Yes, true bakelite is stable when finished. Any of that stuff is. The problems arise when you work it. Grinding it will cause phenol, and formaldehyde gas to be produced. It is also present in the dust, and can be absorbed through the skin. Heating these products will produce the same effects.
Does the literature actually say bakelite? The reason I ask is, you rarely see it anymore, and it is somewhat brittle. So you don't want to drop it.
It used to be used as an insulator in radios, and as radio cabinets, jewelry etc., in the 20's, 30's 40's. The Handset radios used in Vietnam, by the Marine Corps were made with bakelite cases, and they were always breaking, according to my brother who was a radio section Gunny for awhile.
 
Mike -
I don't have the packaging of the Chicago Cutlery knife I got as a gift for Christmas from my nephew but this site seems to spell it out. Hope this works: www.chicagocutlery.com/chicago/ Then click on 'Insignia'. As a sideline - We used to store 'Phenol' (liquid) in a storage tank at our terminal for a customer. To load trucks, you had to be fully protective suited up, respirator, rubber gloves, boots, etc. Safety shower was right there in case you were splashed! A drop of the liquid on bare skin, if not washed off immediately, could enter your system & kill you. I believe it affects the respiratory system very quickly! Needless to say we were all glad when that customer pulled out of our terminal!
 
Yep, it says bakelite. :D
I would hate to handle Phenol in the form you did. Nasty stuff.:eek:
 
the soap and heat cycles on dishwashers make even the most stain resistant steels (like 440C) rust.........not the place for a hand made knife. :(
 
More about Phenol....

As deadly as liquid phenol was I believe you could find it listed as an ingredient in a sore throat spray product that 'numbed' your throat. I'm only guessing at Cepachol???
 
Originally posted by Clydetz
More about Phenol....

As deadly as liquid phenol was I believe you could find it listed as an ingredient in a sore throat spray product that 'numbed' your throat. I'm only guessing at Cepachol???
Click to expand...


My wife used to rub Noxema on her face before bed. She started feeling more, and more sick. She also started having reactions to everyday foods etc. I looked at the Noxema jar, and a big indgredient was phenol. She stopped using it, and after a few weeks, felt better. I don't believe they put it in Noxema anymore.

It is being phased out of medications, and foodstuffs slowly, and quietly. It is a shame it continued to be used for so long. Money talks I guess. :mad:
 
Corian, It comes in a variety of nice colors. Besides that dont put any fine cutlery in the dishwasher. Mayo is right.
 
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