Distance and Velocity for the throw

[Pointless]

Hello everyone! I just registered and hope my first post is in the right forum.
I am senior and new to knife throwing.I bought the Gil Hibbens GH2034 Small Competition Thrower Set ( 8 inch)a month ago and set up a pine
backstop for it. I just received the GH 2033 set ( 12 inch) after reading many opinions on the internet that longer, heavier blades are best
for beginners. I have bookmarked many sites offering advice on purchases and technique.
Anyway, after 50 throws with the longer knife in one session at 9 and 12 feet, I am frustrated with my poor results compared with not so bad
results with the shorter knife after 100's of throws. As my thread title indicates- Should you throw a longer, heavier knife harder at these distances and/or use
a different overall technique than for the shorter one? I won't go on and on and hope to receive some opinions on this. I have not been able to
detect a clear answer to these points in the great articles and videos on the internet. I fully understand that practice is the key once effective
techniques are established. Thanks for looking!

 

[zzyzzogeton]

I'm a relative newbie to throwing as well, but some extra info for the experts to comment by will be needed---

Are you throwing using a No-Spin method or a traditional spin method?

When you say you are throwing at pine, are you referring to a segment of a pine trunk known as a target butt or at a flat plate of 2x4s/4x4s, i.e., are you throwing at the end grain of the wood or at the flat side of a board?

Some of what I have learned, spin style.. is don't measure a set distance. Start at ABOUT 5 feet and do a 1/2 spin attempt several times. Watch how the knives hit. If they are over-rotating and hitting point down, move a little closer and try again. If it is hitting point up, the knife is getting to the target before it has had enough time to complete the rotation of the tip to the target plane. Move a few inches away and try again. When ever you start hitting the target consistently WITH THE TIP, regardless of whether or not it sticks, that is YOUR 1/2 spin distance. For 1 full spin distance, start at double your 1/2 spin distance and start the process over again until you find YOUR 1 spin distance.

Everyone's distances are different for 1/2, 1, 1-1/2, 2, etc spins. Rather than carry a tape measure, I measure with my feet, kinda like a toe-to-heel drunk driving test, counting the number of "feet" for each spin count FOR EACH KNIFE SIZE you throw. I have found that for ME personally, each knife or ax I throw requires a different distance. Just a few inches, but the slight difference in distance changes my hit ratio. As an example, with a 13 inch symmetrically shaped knife, my 1/2 spin distance is 7 "feet", but my 16" Bowies require almost 8 "feet". And the distances can be a little different each day depending on how stiff you are, etc and you may have to adjust your throw point subtlely each day. My feet are kinda small, only about 10" long in tennis shoes, 11 in combat boots. I keep a small wheel book with a chart of knives and "feet" for tennis shoes and boots. Yeah, I'm kinda OCD about it, but also am too lazy to memorize a whole bunch of tables.

No-spin is different as well. Windwhistler on here told me to start close, about 3 feet and work to get the knives to stick almost 100% at that distance and then move out 1 foot and start again. Keep moving out 1 foot at a time. Eventually you get out to the distance you want. The release point in your throw is slightly different for each distance, so what you want to do is teach your muscles the "muscle memory" of the throws. The height of your targets changes the angle of release. I originally had 3 targets set vertically so I could throw each of 3 knives at different targets. For now, I have changed that to 3 targets all at the same height side by side. After I get decent at a set height, I'll add some variations to my range. I throw 1 knife at each target to reduce the "knife against knife" anxiety I have about smacking my knives against each other.

I've also been working at improving my consistency in how I release my knives on each throw. I TRY to see if I can release each knife in succession exactly the same way I did the last one that "stuck". If you change your arm swing a little, or bend your wrist a little differently etc from throw to throw, you are adding little inconsistencies to your throwing motion. I have been trying to implement what I learned about improved accuracy for rifle, pistol and archery shooting over the years to my knives, as I view them as just another way of throwing metal down range.

 

[halzucati]

Hello everyone! I just registered and hope my first post is in the right forum.
I am senior and new to knife throwing.I bought the Gil Hibbens GH2034 Small Competition Thrower Set ( 8 inch)a month ago and set up a pine
backstop for it. I just received the GH 2033 set ( 12 inch) after reading many opinions on the internet that longer, heavier blades are best
for beginners. I have bookmarked many sites offering advice on purchases and technique.
Anyway, after 50 throws with the longer knife in one session at 9 and 12 feet, I am frustrated with my poor results compared with not so bad
results with the shorter knife after 100's of throws. As my thread title indicates- Should you throw a longer, heavier knife harder at these distances and/or use
a different overall technique than for the shorter one? I won't go on and on and hope to receive some opinions on this. I have not been able to
detect a clear answer to these points in the great articles and videos on the internet. I fully understand that practice is the key once effective
techniques are established. Thanks for looking!

The physics of longer and heavier on paper allow for more reaction time and slower spin. Both of which "generally" equate to "easier" but not always. I think you've answered some of your own question. You've found knives that work better than others for you.

Another thing to consider is grip. The knives you mention are very curvy and they don't necessarily lend themselves to sliding out of the hand during a throw. Depends on how you throw but are the ones that work better for you straighter?

Also, switch up the grip, blade to handle or handle to blade. On the Gill Hibben 2033's that may not make much difference because of the same curve on both ends... which is my point.

The perfect "spin" throw involves a throw that allows you to control the spin. half, whole, one and a half, whatever. The key to spin throwing is first getting it to stick all the time, from any distance. Then do the math and adjust. Practice is part but the hardest is the beginning where getting the knife to stick is the most frustrating part. Another thing to consider is your target. I've just done some target media testing, boards vs log rounds. You can tell which work better... (log rounds)

[video=youtube_share;fPoCoxPKKsc]http://youtu.be/fPoCoxPKKsc[/video]

For reference the knives shown in this video range from 9" to 13" if you watch closely you can see the difference in rotation between the sizes. Using the same small to large scale they weigh between 9 and 20oz.
All knives were thrown 1/2 spin from about 12' away. (I take a half step towards the target and release in front of my body a full extension... so the release is usually somewhere between 9-11 feet.
Since most of the knives used in this video were smaller than 12" I had to either take a more tip-centric grip on the 13" knife or take a step back to compensate.



There is no set answer to your question, which I know is frustrating, but it all comes down to a bunch of varibles. So one by one eliminate them.

1. Get a knife that feels comfortable to throw.
2. Get a target that allows the knife to stick with a minimum of force.
3. Start right up on the target, like touching distance, and start sticking the knife... gradually move back and add spins and force. One step, one throw. You'll see pretty quickly what's going on and how to correct.

Most importantly don't get hung up on anything in particular. Try everything at least once.

Good luck, and have fun!

- Hal Zucati

 

[Windwhistler]

The main thing is practice. If I have been throwing an identical 10" knife every day for a week or a set of them and then I change over to three 14" ones on Friday, there is a relearning curve. After about an hour, I am back at 95% sticking at most ranges. I have been at this about 30 minutes a day for almost 2 years now. A year ago the re-learning curve could easily be a couple of days.

The only way I know to combat this is to take out five different knives (length and weight) and throw them randomly at the same range, ideally same height target. You hands get used to adapting for the weight and length differences this way and will start doing it on their own without you thinking about it. This is a common exercise I use from time to time when no one is watching! Yes, you are going to stick fewer knives. But adaptation without a learning curve will come. Then after you are hitting with the same consistency, start changing up your range and height of your targets. That adaptation will come too. It just takes a while so too many variables all at once can be very frustrating.

 

[Pointless]

Thanks for all replies. I will have to make notes on the specifics you all have mentioned (as well as from other articles on the internet) so I won't be sifting through
too many bookmarked pages on the subject. Clearly, there is a significant learning curve for this hobby/sport as I also found when I took up airgun target shooting . Different pistols and rifles require their own techniques in grip, stance, etc. Is there any advice on how hard to throw at distances? My 8 inch at 9 feet requires a gentle toss. Many videos show pretty fast throws.


As newbie here, I also put another thread ( In General Discussion) about positioning my pine plank backstop with or without backward tilt.

 

[halzucati]

Thanks for all replies. I will have to make notes on the specifics you all have mentioned (as well as from other articles on the internet) so I won't be sifting through
too many bookmarked pages on the subject. Clearly, there is a significant learning curve for this hobby/sport as I also found when I took up airgun target shooting . Different pistols and rifles require their own techniques in grip, stance, etc. Is there any advice on how hard to throw at distances? My 8 inch at 9 feet requires a gentle toss. Many videos show pretty fast throws.


As newbie here, I also put another thread ( In General Discussion) about positioning my pine plank backstop with or without backward tilt.

Throw as hard as is necessary to stick the knife, but not so hard as to injure yourself. I tend to throw fairly hard after a warm-up, but finesse has its merits too.

- Hal Zucati

 

[Windwhistler]

Once you are getting a good ratio of hits at distances you want, you can start throwing harder. Problem is the knives will arrive at your target much faster and ttend to be at an incorrect angle to stick. If you are spinning them, my experience is they may be at almost any angle. That is why I like no-spin. The point may not hit exactly on but will generally be close unless you are just trying to throw fast balls. They will tend to be pointing up when they hit, you can see this and Release a tiny bit later. Often at 15 feet or less I choke up a good bit on the knife and throw it with my forefinger on its spine balance point. That greatly flattens the arc of its flight and you can throw much harder. Remember! If you throw hard and fast, they bounce back hard and fast so be ready to move when necessary.

 

[kindasharp]

They do come back fast! I have dodged many a bayonet in my day, as that is what i learned to throw.