DIY Lathe / Mill Machining coolant fluids ???

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I have a question for the machinist type folks.

When cutting on lathe, mill, saw right now I use the oil can here and there as a cutting lube.
I'd consider installing some sort of lube on my mill with a pump and such but I need some ideas.

I'm looking for the “canola oil quench equivalent” in a coolant.

I'm kind of familiar with the water soluble oils, but not sure they would work for me.

It would see "heavy occasional use "
It may sit for weeks or months before i use it and then be used for hours or days at a time

Some of the points I can think of are mostly don't wants....

I'm using manual machines at the low limit of their capacity, HSS tools 90% of the time.
Maybe a carbide insert face mill or carbide insert end mill

Last long time without doing refractometer tests and adding concentration.
That just won't get done.

My shop space is unheated so it has to not freeze
and by not freezing not kill the pumps and such when it expands.

not remove the paint, or be corrosive on the machines

not turn rancid

not cost hundreds of dollars per gallon / pail

not kill me

I am sensitive to breathing stuff like air fresheners aerosols and oils that hang in the air,
so i want to keep the oil mist and smoke down.

I probably want flood over mist.

I've seen sulphur oils work and I don't want those clouds of smoke.



Work with either carbon steel and aluminium, stainless will be very seldom.


i do know about the cold air guns, but first I've got to think liquid has better heat transfer and chip wash.
I also don't have the air capacity to run that.




Is there some stupid simple cheap alternate like an alcohol blend, or glycol blend, maybe kerosene, for this sort of thing




and while we're at it

do you have any DIY ideas on how to apply it, pumps, hose, nozzles, filters ?
 
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Most of the old do-it-yourself type of stuff didn't have great sump life. Lard mixes etc.

Except for their ability to freeze I think the best stuff is modern water/oil emulsions. The Trim Microsol 585xt I use can sit pretty much indefinitely without going funky or growing sump livers, I never get rust or varnish buildup with it and it is relatively operator safe and doesn't smoke in heavy cuts.

It's not a good idea to use stuff like alcohol or kerosene, particularly in steel. Sparks happen all the time. Cutting oils made for the job have high flash points and fire inhibitors for this reason. I've even heard of people having fires using tapping fluids as coolant.

If you go with a water based coolant you'll want to stay away from full synthetic because they strip paint. And avoid the cheap stuff because they have poor sump life. I know for a fact the Trim I use would work for you in that regard and a gallon of it makes 7 gallons of coolant mix and isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure it would freeze though.
 
Thanks for the comments Nathan.

The freezing is a big problem for me.


I've done some searches and I haven't seen any other good solutions either.



With the alcohol I was thinking a water alcohol mix, just enough to keep from freezing without the possibility of burning
but corrosion is a big problem with alcohol.


I've seen auto antifreeze and RV plumbing antifreeze suggested.
Unless I see anything better, I'm gong to have to give those a trial.



I found this DIY setup for a pump, seems doable

http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/coolant/coolant.htm
 
Is the neat oil smoking issue going to be something that will actually apply to your way of working?

You don't mention what the machines you are using are, but it sounds like you are working at what I would regard as typical Home-Shop-Machinist feeds and DOCs. Probably speeds too, if you are mostly using HSS. I've limited experience of machining, but what I've seen in industry is pretty scary by comparison to HSM stuff. I've certainly never had the machine mass/rigidity available to approach industrial material removal rates.

Other than the smoking, a neat cutting oil sounds like it would probably fit the bill.
 
timgunn1962 said:
Is the neat oil smoking issue going to be something that will actually apply to your way of working?

You don't mention what the machines you are using are, but it sounds like you are working at what I would regard as typical Home-Shop-Machinist feeds and DOCs. Probably speeds too, if you are mostly using HSS. I've limited experience of machining, but what I've seen in industry is pretty scary by comparison to HSM stuff. I've certainly never had the machine mass/rigidity available to approach industrial material removal rates.

Other than the smoking, a neat cutting oil sounds like it would probably fit the bill.
Click to expand...

Yes I'm using a HSM type knee mill.
It sounds like you consider the smoking to be a non issue, but to me it's of highest consideration.


I am sensitive to breathing stuff like air fresheners aerosols and oils that hang in the air,
so i want to keep the oil mist and smoke down.

I probably want flood over mist.

I've seen sulphur oils work and I don't want those clouds of smoke.
Click to expand...



I'm already using brush / oil can application and yes I can get it to smoke.

I have pre-existing chronic breathing problems.

When i say "I'm sensitive to it" that means a single exposure it makes me so short of breath it interferes with my ability to work for days later.


It's essential to eliminate that mist/fog/smoke

I'd also like to have a pump and nozzle system that leaves me hands free to run the cranks.



The freezing, is the only thing that stops me from using a commercial coolant like Nathan suggested.
 
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I wonder if some sort of heater could keep your sump from freezing? It sounds to me like you might should stay away from oil.

If you do the math, the cost for running a 25 watt submersible heating element over the colder months doesn't add up to $10.

Though, of course, there are the costs associated with electrocuting yourself if you do it improperly.

...just a thought...
 
You could put an aquarium heater or a heat pad or something like that below your sump. Even a strip of pipe heating tape would work. I have the same issues count, un-climate controlled shop, big machines that need coolant regardless of the pontifications of people that use smaller tools and do smaller tasks.

I used a couple different water soluble standard type (but premium quality) coolants, most I've had problems with, due to concentration and bacteria, and intermittent use.

Semi-synthetics and synthetics are the option for flood coolant, and not to disagree with Nathan, but from my communication with different shops, and people that use them, not all synthetics strip paint. I have ordered a few gallons of Trim Microsol 585xt per Nathan's recommendation, after doing a ton of research, because it seems very much non-toxic, and unlike the Trico Tri-Cool TC1 my friend is using (synthetic, but he doesn't have issues with rust or paint or plastics destruction), it can withstand freezing.

Tri-Cool Tc1 says specifically not to freeze in the literature, which is why I decided against it over the Microsol. I'm not sure the Microsol is going to work great for my cold saw, but we'll see.


Other options include limited lubrication systems, microdrop type things that aren't "mist" per say, etc, that use non-mixed coolants in small doses. Some of these systems are sealed so evaporation isn't an issue, and they use very little of the mix. The flip side, is they're non-reclaimable coolants, meaning they don't recirculate back down to the sump, and the coolants can be pricey, along with the dispensers.


Getting away from a refractometer is nearly impossible and having a flood system without going with straight oil based solutions, which is *VERY* expensive up front, and has serious drawbacks in terms of mess, and other concerns. If you're rigging up your system from scratch however, having a tightly sealed system will help how often you've got to add makeup solution, as evaporation is the biggest factor in mixture imbalance in our cases. You can get a cheap brix refractometer for like $20 on ebay FWIW, and 1 gallon of coolant will likely last you a very long time.
 
Thanks for the info.


I'll take Trim Microsol 585xt as my starting point, at least it dosen't funk at sitting


I can get around the freezing if I drain the tank and store inside, it's just more time spent on cleanup and setup
 
Count I haven't had a problem so far with my sumps or lines freezing, except for some old coolant lines that probably were shot anyway. Although it can be a PITA to thaw them, it hasn't seemed to cause any damage. And afaik, Microsol 585XT can survive being frozen unlike some.


It really wouldn't be hard to set-up a single pump/sump system in a 5 gallon bucket however, with disconnecting lines to use for whatever machine you need, that you can take inside. Just get one mag-base coolant nozzle for each machine and leave it there, disconnect when you're done. Lines freezing is the biggest PITA really.


Edit: Also, dunno about Canada, but Zoro tools, has the best price I've seen for Microsol 585XT here. $30 a gallon and free shipping over $50, so I got two gallons to test with.
 
javand said:
Count I haven't had a problem so far with my sumps or lines freezing, except for some old coolant lines that probably were shot anyway. Although it can be a PITA to thaw them, it hasn't seemed to cause any damage. And afaik, Microsol 585XT can survive being frozen unlike some.


It really wouldn't be hard to set-up a single pump/sump system in a 5 gallon bucket however, with disconnecting lines to use for whatever machine you need, that you can take inside. Just get one mag-base coolant nozzle for each machine and leave it there, disconnect when you're done. Lines freezing is the biggest PITA really.


Edit: Also, dunno about Canada, but Zoro tools, has the best price I've seen for Microsol 585XT here. $30 a gallon and free shipping over $50, so I got two gallons to test with.
Click to expand...

good idea with the quick disconnect.

I've already found a local stocking supplier so it should be a simple over the counter sale.
(it's not always that simple)
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Most of the old do-it-yourself type of stuff didn't have great sump life. Lard mixes etc.

Except for their ability to freeze I think the best stuff is modern water/oil emulsions. The Trim Microsol 585xt I use can sit pretty much indefinitely without going funky or growing sump livers, I never get rust or varnish buildup with it and it is relatively operator safe and doesn't smoke in heavy cuts.

It's not a good idea to use stuff like alcohol or kerosene, particularly in steel. Sparks happen all the time. Cutting oils made for the job have high flash points and fire inhibitors for this reason. I've even heard of people having fires using tapping fluids as coolant.

If you go with a water based coolant you'll want to stay away from full synthetic because they strip paint. And avoid the cheap stuff because they have poor sump life. I know for a fact the Trim I use would work for you in that regard and a gallon of it makes 7 gallons of coolant mix and isn't that expensive. I'm pretty sure it would freeze though.
Click to expand...

so I gather the diy formula of : 1 Quart of Motor Oil , 3 cups of dish-soap , and 4 gallons of water would be a bad idea ? :confused:
 
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