With this current setup I have I can achieve really good resells.. I can begin to shave off of the dmt coarse but it doesn't seem to cut paper too well without slicing.. read somewhere u can achieve push cutting paper with the coarse.. it seems to stay like this and only when I use the ceramic ultra fine it really begins to get scary sharp.. I use both sides of the knife while shaving to make sure there is no burr and take extra steps during each grit to remove burr but I don't understand why it has such a big change from extra fine dmt to ultra fine spyderco.. maybe it's normal? Maybe I don't fully remove the burr until then? Maybe it's nothing and it's perfectly normal I don't know just curious what results everyone else achieves off these stones. My dmts may not be fully broke in but I think they're getting close. It goes from barely shaving and slice cutting paper to push cutting newspaper and popping hair off no problem. Normal or problem somewhere?
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Dmt coarse,fine, extra fine and spyderco ceramic
- Thread starter Gradyw
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,287
With this current setup I have I can achieve really good resells.. I can begin to shave off of the dmt coarse but it doesn't seem to cut paper too well without slicing.. read somewhere u can achieve push cutting paper with the coarse.. it seems to stay like this and only when I use the ceramic ultra fine it really begins to get scary sharp.. I use both sides of the knife while shaving to make sure there is no burr and take extra steps during each grit to remove burr but I don't understand why it has such a big change from extra fine dmt to ultra fine spyderco.. maybe it's normal? Maybe I don't fully remove the burr until then? Maybe it's nothing and it's perfectly normal I don't know just curious what results everyone else achieves off these stones. My dmts may not be fully broke in but I think they're getting close. It goes from barely shaving and slice cutting paper to push cutting newspaper and popping hair off no problem. Normal or problem somewhere?
Hi,
What are "extra steps" you use, double angle deburr?
No more than 1-2 light alternating edge leading passes?
Light as in under 100 grams, under 50 grams, as light as you can control?
After you double angle deburr do you do equal amount of passes at original not-double angle?
Light edge leading alternating passes? No more than 10?
Or after deburr ,
intentionally raise a smaller tiny tiny tiny burr with 30 passes per side original angle,
then deburr-2 at double andle and backsharpen-10 at original angle
What kind of held me back from doing 90-90-90 push cuts in the first ~year of 2015,
is discovering that I can be really really really really really really wobbly,
every pass range from 0 to 40 degrees,
so as long as I raise a giant burr, and then cut it off carefully,
it will shave, even if the edge is uneven....
even if I have to deburr 5-10 times ...
Eventually without changing what I'm doing ,
just by lowering the angles and widening the bevels,
the same kind of lots of wobble and I could do push cuts too,
and then I kept wondering,
well I can whittle beard hair and push cut
why can't I whittle head hair doing the same wobble dance?
well the burr is too big,
and with wobble the apex line isn't as consistent,
key is really raise only a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny burr
and if it won't whittle head hair after deburr and backsharpen
then do fewer strokes and raise an even more tiny burr
and then it just kind of happens
You can see the technique here
Same 90 degree push cut off norton india fine ... its ~P400 /35micron
[video=youtube;EcrnigC3Anc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcrnigC3Anc[/video]
320 grit stone , push cut newspaper at 90 degree, 45 tip left , 45 tip up Normark EKA 12C27 : optimal edge geometry for slicing hardwoods (norton economy fine edge) - CliffStamp
I normally raise the angle 10-20 degrees and alternate strokes a few times with very light pressure then continue back to my regular angle and continue to alternate strokes with little pressure leading into no pressure.. I don't count the strokes but probably about twenty more on each side
When I started sharpening again several years ago, I found that the Spyderco medium stone (701 profile) was sort of "magic". It would take an edge that I had tried to sharpen on a more coarse stone and turn that edge into a hair shaving edge with just a half dozen strokes per side. "Magic".
I'm still not sure what combination of properties make this happen, but the edges that come from the Spyderco ceramics seem to happen without a lot of user effort.
By contrast, to make a really nice edge with lower grit stones (like your DMT C or EF), it takes more stability, and more careful deburring. If I really carefully deburr coming off of the DMT C I can nearly pop hair off of my arm and slice cut phonebook paper. I'm not sure I've ever done much of a push cut on phonebook paper straight off of the DMT C. I'll have to try that at some point.
The DMT EF can definitely make push cutting phonebook edges. I find that edge leading strokes are the right technique for deburring on DMTs. One to three light strokes at double angle, and then a half dozen per side at the original angle. This seems to work well for me.
You might try cleaning off your edge right after you deburr. To remove any residual junk that might be stuck to it. Also, it's worth experimenting with a *tiny* bit of stropping. DMT C, followed immediately by 2 or 3 strokes per side on a strop can be kind of magical. I remember the first time I did this. It kinda blew my mind.
Brian.
I'm still not sure what combination of properties make this happen, but the edges that come from the Spyderco ceramics seem to happen without a lot of user effort.
By contrast, to make a really nice edge with lower grit stones (like your DMT C or EF), it takes more stability, and more careful deburring. If I really carefully deburr coming off of the DMT C I can nearly pop hair off of my arm and slice cut phonebook paper. I'm not sure I've ever done much of a push cut on phonebook paper straight off of the DMT C. I'll have to try that at some point.
The DMT EF can definitely make push cutting phonebook edges. I find that edge leading strokes are the right technique for deburring on DMTs. One to three light strokes at double angle, and then a half dozen per side at the original angle. This seems to work well for me.
You might try cleaning off your edge right after you deburr. To remove any residual junk that might be stuck to it. Also, it's worth experimenting with a *tiny* bit of stropping. DMT C, followed immediately by 2 or 3 strokes per side on a strop can be kind of magical. I remember the first time I did this. It kinda blew my mind.
Brian.
Well I went to straighten out an edge today that didn't sharpen to good around the hilt with my dmt c and to my surprise after spending some more time debuting and paying very close attention to my alternating strokes I had finally achieved a hair popping sharp straight off the coarse stone... it was set at a very low angle I was sharpening at but I was very surprised with the result.
Haha yea it felt awesome. Especially when I drew blood going to shave my leg hair to see what it would do haha. It was on an older Remington knife made in the USA I found at my dads so maybe the steel attributed to that more so then the others? Dk either way I was happy