DMT EEF or Dia-Paste, trying to plan for future setup

[Bob6794]

Background (Yes I did just put "background" and "questions" in bold, this looked like an essay to me and I'd rather make it easier to skim over)

To give a quick background on what I use for sharpening. I have the DMT Aligner with C/F/EF and use the aligner to reprofile and than free hand with the stones. I had planned on using a strop but for now I am trying to just master the basics of free handing with the stones since every time I take one step forward in my ability to sharpen I learn I am no where near as good as I thought (the more I learn, the more I learn I don't know lol). So I have a couple questions since I am having a little difficulty finding the answers on my own. I don't plan on buying these immediately but probably when my skill gets better, so if you know of a direction to point me towards for information that be greatly appreciated as well.

My basic goal is just refining the edge and making it the best my skill allows me to do. As nice as a mirror polish sounds it's not a goal right now, I'd rather learn how to get a refine edge so I experience it and learn which I like more a toothy or refined edge.

I already have a few old leather belts I should be able to turn into a strop, from a quick google search I located where I can buy MDF and sheets of balsa pretty cheaply so I don't think acquiring materials should be too much of an issue. And I plan on building the strops to being pretty close to the dimensions of the stones I already have, if not a little bigger so I can easily use the same stropping technique I use when I am finishing up on a stone.

Questions
I was planning on picking up the DMT EEF stone which is 3 micron, but after looking at the Dia-Paste kit which is 6/3/1 micron how would the paste compare to the actual stone in terms of what you get in finished product and use? For simplicity sake the EEF vs the 3 micron dia-paste. (I had planned building a strop with some compound of some type to use after the EEF but I was unsure of what kind as I didn't research that too much. And comparing the EEF vs 1 micron strop seemed a little unfair.)

For strop material I've heard of various types of leather being used, balsa wood, MDF, are there other common strop materials being used that can be bought inexpensively to put compound on. And what kind of differences should I expect from using different strop materials?

 

[bonzodog]

After the EEF stone I polish with 3000 grit edgepro tape.Strop is used as required between sharpening sessions.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Go with EEF, it's a fixed-abrasive surface which abrade steel more consistently and predictable than paste (loose abrasive).

EEF 3um effective grit (scratch pattern) is equivalent to 5-6um loose diamond abrasive surface (strop).

 

[blame it on god]

I have the EEF hone. It is finer than the EF, but the scratch pattern definitely doesn't look like 3 microns. Even once broken in diamond hones cut differently than their equivalent stone type hones.

I also have and use diapaste. Now that does leave a very nice finish. So I made exact size copies of the DMT hones out of wood so I could further refine my edges while still in the clamp.

 

[Cynic2701]

Once you start getting into sub-10 micron grit range, I think strops and pastes will help with edge refinement more than a diamond stone. Waterstones are a little different, but still require consistent and good technique to be fully utilized. A strop with paste will help blend together the "nooks and crannies" that freehand sharpening inevitably leaves behind.

 

[Bob6794]

Tried to do a bit more research on what has been said, and my understanding now is that the EEF stone will be more abrasive and remove more metal. But a strop will be more forgiving to varying degree's based on the material and help get rid of the imperfections I put in it with the previous stone. And in terms of material used leather will be less abrasive with a compound and leave a more refined finish, but balsa and MDF will act more aggressively as it's a harder material and leave more of a scratch pattern.

I also read somewhere with a leather strop you should be using a slightly different angle than you use when your on the stone due to how soft the material is. And that with balsa and MDF you use the same angle as the stone.

So far is my understanding correct?

 

[Jason B.]

The EEF is one of the best finishing stones for high wear steels that you can get. With proper technique you don't even need a strop after this stone.

 

[Bob6794]

The EEF is one of the best finishing stones for high wear steels that you can get. With proper technique you don't even need a strop after this stone.

Right now I am focusing on my skill with the stones and finishing off on the EF stone and am getting some pretty good results. It's not perfect, but it's definitely sharp and I am improving at a pretty steady rate. Would the EEF stone still provide a good finish on some of the softer steels such as 440a (kershaw, and rough riders), SAK steel, aus-8, 8cr13mov, carbon steel? I seem to be gravitating more towards traditional knives so the most wear resistant steel I might encounter anytime soon might be Queen's D2, but to be honest I see myself springing for a carbon steel blade almost every chance I get instead as of right now the only exception I see might be a Queen Country Cousin.

 

[Cynic2701]

Right now I am focusing on my skill with the stones and finishing off on the EF stone and am getting some pretty good results. It's not perfect, but it's definitely sharp and I am improving at a pretty steady rate. Would the EEF stone still provide a good finish on some of the softer steels such as 440a (kershaw, and rough riders), SAK steel, aus-8, 8cr13mov, carbon steel? I seem to be gravitating more towards traditional knives so the most wear resistant steel I might encounter anytime soon might be Queen's D2, but to be honest I see myself springing for a carbon steel blade almost every chance I get instead as of right now the only exception I see might be a Queen Country Cousin.

I can only speak to SAK's mystery steel, but you will need to drastically adjust down the number of strokes compared to something like S30V. There is, to me, no steel more frustrating because I can get high wear resistance steels (e.g. S90V, ZDP-189, CPM-3V, CPM-M4) to hair whittling sharp, but SAK's mystery steel proves difficult for me.

 

[Jason B.]

Right now I am focusing on my skill with the stones and finishing off on the EF stone and am getting some pretty good results. It's not perfect, but it's definitely sharp and I am improving at a pretty steady rate. Would the EEF stone still provide a good finish on some of the softer steels such as 440a (kershaw, and rough riders), SAK steel, aus-8, 8cr13mov, carbon steel? I seem to be gravitating more towards traditional knives so the most wear resistant steel I might encounter anytime soon might be Queen's D2, but to be honest I see myself springing for a carbon steel blade almost every chance I get instead as of right now the only exception I see might be a Queen Country Cousin.

You might want to add some water stones for those steels. The 1k 6k Arashiyama would make a good addition to your sharpening gear. When you have a collection of various steels you need a equal selection of stones

 

[Bob6794]

I can only speak to SAK's mystery steel, but you will need to drastically adjust down the number of strokes compared to something like S30V. There is, to me, no steel more frustrating because I can get high wear resistance steels (e.g. S90V, ZDP-189, CPM-3V, CPM-M4) to hair whittling sharp, but SAK's mystery steel proves difficult for me.

Funny you mention their steel as something that's difficult to sharpen. I chose to buy a Victorinox paring knife to use as my practice knife because I thought the diamond stones would cut through it like a hot knife through butter and be a bit difficult to sharpen because of it. I was right even on Fine grit if you don't check often and you make a mistake you just removed a lot of steel even in comparison to 440a. So far it proves easy to get sharp but very difficult to get extremely sharp as there just feels like there is no room for error. So overall for that next level of sharpness I am currently chasing it's very telling of my mistakes which is a good thing.

You might want to add some water stones for those steels. The 1k 6k Arashiyama would make a good addition to your sharpening gear. When you have a collection of various steels you need a equal selection of stones

Trust me I thought about adding some water stones to my collection for the past few weeks to try out, but decided I don't have enough experience with the DMT's I have now. I'd rather master what I have now before moving on, and sadly the stones you recommended and most I've even glanced at are a bit out of my price range. I am still trying to do this on a budget (we see how long that lasts lol), my previous airsoft hobby ate up quite a bit of funds so I am trying to learn from my mistakes. So my goal this time around was buy cheap but good quality products, master it as much as possible before moving onto something else if I choose to do so taking with me that knowledge.

Since the water stones are out of the question for now, does the EEF still provide a good finish for these softer steels or is the diamond stone still a bit too abrasive?

(Oh and just a side note I just sharpen my pocket knives on these which are 3in or less typically, so a 4in stone is quite doable.)

 

[Bob6794]

As long as the credit card company doesn't decide my spyderco purchase looks suspicious and flag/cancel it and instead lets my order go through I should have the new Spyderco Mule Team S110V knife coming in. First fixed blade, spyderco, high end steel knife. I guess I have to rephrase what I said earlier about not dealing with supersteels. Took me less than a day to be proven wrong. And there went pretty much the majority of the money I was trying to save up for going out and having fun (movies, etc) or computer hardware purchases, oh well it was still "fun" money meant to be spent on stuff I enjoy. Figure I update this since I am now dealing with a far wider range of steel.

And I have a quick question, what can I expect from trying to sharpen a S110V blade compared to what I have been working with lately? Is it just an increase in the number of repetitions to remove the same amount of steel compared to what I am used to or is there a bit more to it?