DMT Progression

F

foam2

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Feb 20, 2011
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So trying to branch out from the wicked edge, edge pro, and belt sanders (which are still awesome by the way), I decided to try my hand at free hand sharpening. Checking out youtube videos as well, I picked up an 8" DMT coarse diamond plate, a fine diamond plate, and an 8" X 3" ultra fine stone. I tried out my hand on a steak knife and took my time. Surprisingly it went pretty well overall, the bevels were even and I was able to shave easily with it on my first try. Where I did have issue however is in the stone progression. I took my time on the coarse and the diamond plate was giving me really great feedback which helped made starting out easy. I progressed to the fine diamond plate and again it worked out pretty well, and the strokes with the knife in my dominant hand and the stone moving away from me seemed more natural and strokes moving towards me needed more concentration but overall both sides came out even and I was really happy with the result. When I went to the spyderco ultra fine stone however I felt a lot of roughness in the blade and as a result I spent a lot of time with it trying to work out the scratches from the fine diamond plate. I tried finishing out with bark river cbn emulsion in 4 and 2 microns and while the edge was better, looking at it under a 10X loupe there still is a lot of roughness left.
So my thought is the jump from the fine plate to the ultra fine stone is too big and I need something intermediate to bridge the gap. Looking at the grit sizes for each, the coarse is 45 microns, the fine plate is 25 and the ultra fine is 3 microns. The extra fine diamond plate is 9 microns, alternately the medium spyderco stone is 15 microns and the fine is 6 microns. So I would like to hear what everyone thinks, extra fine plate or medium and fine spyderco stones prior to the ultra fine. Also interested in other options as well.
Thanks,
George
 
Can't really compare the Diamonds to Ceramic as if it were apples to apples kind of deal. Different abbrasives react differently.

But outside of that you need the DMT EF than progress to the Spyderco UF, that is what a lot of people do and get good results. Should produce something pretty close or a mirror edge if my memory serves me correctly.

This is what one guy uses which is close to what your using, watch his video's their quite helpful. He uses the EF before going to the Spyderco UF.
[video=youtube;ZtsDPVohg1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtsDPVohg1k&index=51&list=PLB95E1C271CE6654B[/video]
 
There's no correlation between the Fine/UF designation of diamond, and the same designation for ceramics; different scales entirely. In terms of effective grit (the actual finish produced), all of the Spyderco hones (medium, fine and UF) will be much, much finer than the DMT 'Fine', which leaves a much coarser finish by comparison. All of the Spyderco hones are all made with the exact same abrasive media; all around 15 microns. But the way the hones are finished at the factory (and a different binder for the medium 'brown' hone) makes them perform to differing degrees. In the case of the Fine and UF from Spyderco, they're much finer than the Fine or EF hones from DMT. You'd get closer by utilizing the EF/EEF from DMT, before going to the UF Spyderco. OR, at least utilize a medium & fine Spyderco after the Fine DMT, before going to the UF Spyderco.


David
 
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Thanks - I was leaning towards the extra fine plate but also wanted to hear others thoughts as well. Anyone have any experience with the new bark river cbn emulsions?
 
foam2 said:
When I went to the spyderco ultra fine stone however I felt a lot of roughness in the blade and as a result I spent a lot of time with it trying to work out the scratches from the fine diamond plate.
George
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're experiencing as it could be several things. First, ceramics feel very different than diamond plates. They are so hard and so flat that the feedback is less and I find I have a harder time holding a consistent edge angle on them. You *might* be feeling this as well. If you feel wobbly or if you occasionally feel the shoulder or apex of the edge dig in to the stone, this is probably it. The visual symptoms of this are mainly an uneven shine on the edge bevel; reflecting light at several different angles. You probably also experienced a drop in sharpness after this stone if this is the case. You might also have felt like you were fighting the stone to get a good edge.

On the other hand, maybe you are really just talking about the surface finish left behind on the edge bevel. If that's the case, then you should have a very even reflection from the edge bevel and I'd guess that it's mostly matte, with perhaps some areas that seem to shine brightly. You should also have gotten a noticeable, but small improvement in sharpness.

Brian.
 
This is weird, the forum wouldn't let me submit a longer reply. The last thing I wanted to say was:

IMHO the jump from DMT F to Spyderco UF is way too big to bridge without a whole lot of grinding on the UF. I would also suggest the DMT EF, as it will bridge the gap, plus it leaves a very usable edge all on it's own. Like all the DMT plates it takes getting used to and needs to be broken in a bit. I agree with the others that going from DMT F to Spyderco M, F, UF would also be a good progression.

Brian.
 
So I took a step back and decided to pick up where I left off after the fine diamond plate. I started with one of the 800 grit paddles from my wicked edge and used it as a bench stone. I worked it for a few minutes and started to form a burr. I switched to the 1000 grit diamond wicked edge paddle and did the same, again it only took a few minutes. I then went to the spyderco ultra fine bench stone and within about five minutes it was ready. I had to spend some time finishing the area from the belly to the tip which I will have to work on in the earlier grits as well, but overall it was much better than my first attempt. I finished with the bark river 4/2 micron cbn emulsion on the ksf strop. I was able to shave effortlessly and it sliced news print and phone book paper much better than before.
So it seems like the progression as I thought needs some work. I like the idea of two steps but just curious if the spyderco 302M and 302F are prone to dishing at all. I like the idea that the extra fine DMT plate will always be flat but also like the smaller step and extra scratch removal/refinement the spyderco stones should provide.
 
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foam2 said:
So I took a step back and decided to pick up where I left off after the fine diamond plate. I started with one of the 800 grit paddles from my wicked edge and used it as a bench stone. I worked it for a few minutes and started to form a burr. I switched to the 1000 grit diamond wicked edge paddle and did the same, again it only took a few minutes. I then went to the spyderco ultra fine bench stone and within about five minutes it was ready. I had to spend some time finishing the area from the belly to the tip which I will have to work on in the earlier grits as well, but overall it was much better than my first attempt. I finished with the bark river 4/2 micron cbn emulsion on the ksf strop. I was able to shave effortlessly and it sliced news print and phone book paper much better than before.
So it seems like the progression as I thought needs some work. I like the idea of two steps but just curious if the spyderco 302M and 302F are prone to dishing at all. I like the idea that the extra fine DMT plate will always be flat but also like the smaller step and extra scratch removal/refinement the spyderco stones should provide.
Click to expand...

It's likely you'll never induce any dishing on those hones. Some of Spyderco's older hones might've had some slight concavity from the factory. I have a few examples, all going back to the '90s when I bought them. Otherwise, it's unlikely you'll dish them on your own. They are extremely wear-resistant. I flattened a Spyderco DoubleStuff pocket hone, on both sides, due to it's factory edges being raised a bit. The flattening took hours, using a diamond hone. This was a great way to educate me on how little they wear. ;)


David
 
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