Do "collectors" hurt the quality of knives?

[2knife]

.......

 

[Joss]

That's an ongoing question. There is a continuum of things a maker can do that will reduce the performance of his knives. To start with, some alloys used in damascus, not to mention pure nickel. Second, blueing also alters the quality of the heat treatment. But beyond that, you also have some handle materials that are too precious or fragile to be effective in a daily usage situation.

 

[Stephen F]

I don't think that a makers prices and the demand for art knives correlates to a reduction in use of those knives that are purchased with intention of being used.

I am convinced that there are many people out there with the means to purchase art knives in the 2 - 10k region, and the same people would probably be able to afford a user grade in the 1k to 3k region from their favourite makers.

A high end art knife is generally purchased as such, in many scenarios the blade will be made to withstand use and do so very well, but the embellishment and fitting materials used will compromise that quite deliberately.
I very much doubt that if you approached the same maker for a using knife he would approach the construction in the same way.

One very prominient maker of knives sold to be used has prices in the 2-7k range, that does not seem to stop some fortunate people using them from what I can see.

To respond to the Thread Title: Take the collectors away and you will lose alot of makers, certainly full time ....... not sure that will help improve things!

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[Bailey Bradshaw]

From a makers perspective, some elements a collector may request will reduce the useability of the knife due to the delicate nature of some embelishments. Blueing for instance will rub off (Joss, only some blueing treatments will affect the tempering, mainly nitre blueing. Many hot blueing salts work in the 200-300 degree range and don't have any effect on the temper) . Bulino engraving can be damaged by too much handleing.

Also, many more artistic designs don't lend themselves to use very well.

The main purpose of any knifemaker should be to make a serviceable tool. Not every knife needs to push the performance envelope. If I make a knife for serious performance, it is similar to a race car. If it is for a collectors enjoyment, it may be more liek a Bentley. Both are very serviceable for their intended use, and both can be driven.

 

[tom mayo]

most of the knifemakers I know, that are worth their salt, are ALWAYS striving to do a better job, all the time.

The goal is a perfect knife.........havent made one yet!!!!

 

[Grapevine]

On the flip side, if all that's wanted are "working" knives, then wouldn't there be less incentive to improve fit and finish? Some of the more hyped "hard work" brand knives have some of the worst fit and finish QC I've seen. The knives then hurt in their craftsmanship quality.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I have seen some art knives that do not have a finished edge, because they are for display only. For knives like this, performance is not a consideration. However, most makers strive to improve the performance of their knives every time they make one.

With the current group of makers that I have worked with, I am not the lest bit concerned that performance will suffer for artistic sake.

 

[RWS]

I'm into art, function and value in all my knives.

Sure, I could spend a lot and buy an excellent knife from one of the Mastersmiths, but why should I when I can get a Franklin Mint for much less and still end up with art, value and function.

 

[Frank-H]

...but why should I when I can get a Franklin Mint for much less and still end up with art, value and function.

That was hillarious, I needed that today, thanks...

Frank H.

 

[SharpByCoop]

If a maker doesn't get feedback of his knives being used, where is the incentive for improving the performance.

Performance is only one of many criteria for making a knife.

Example, very popular makers.. growing prices mean less people actually using the knives.

Growing prices reflect this makers success. From a financial standpoint HIS performance has increased.

Who is in it for the "art"? Who is in it for the money?

It's a mix of both, with the emphasis placed upon the money. If you can't make a good profit or living there is little incentive to make any knife. No need to apologize.

Example: If Bailey sells ten times more engraved and fancy knives that won't necessarily be used then that's the area he should concentrate on. Collector's haven't 'hurt' anything. They are keeping him alive and the industry solvent.

Maker 'B' finds out he has cornered the market on great performance knives that are meant to be used. He could care about embellishments, 'cuz his profits come from these hard workers. (Dozier, CRK, and Busse come to mind.)

That's not to say there aren't scads of makers whose 'fancy' work will perform exceptional. I know this to be true. At a certain price level, using knives becomes a poor choice for resale or investment reasons.

Performance is decided with your wallet.

Coop

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I'm into art, function and value in all my knives.

Sure, I could spend a lot and buy an excellent knife from one of the Mastersmiths, but why should I when I can get a Franklin Mint for much less and still end up with art, value and function.

You are a sick, sick man.

 

[Megalobyte]

most of the knifemakers I know, that are worth their salt, are ALWAYS striving to do a better job, all the time.

The goal is a perfect knife.........havent made one yet!!!!

I have about 10 TnT's that prove you wrong Tom.

 

[BladeGoblin]

The goal is a perfect knife.........havent made one yet!!!!

I have to agree with Mr. Mayo, his fit and finish has been going down hill.

 

[Marcel54]

Can someone give me the address of Franklin Mint because I'm in awe with this quality of knifemaking. I want them all

 

[Megalobyte]

Can someone give me the address of Franklin Mint because I'm in awe with this quality of knifemaking. I want them all

You should also check out the Frost Cutlery line of custom bowies they sell on HSN at 4am monday morning. How can you beat a custom bowie for $1.29?

 

[T.K.C.]

ROFLAO!!! You guys are killing me!!!!

I can ot belive some of the crap that they try to pass of as a knife on TV. What a bunch of crap!!

 

[2knife]

Makers who concentrate on the art of the knife, such as the man who lives in Utah.. (name ) He wins awards with his stunning San Francisco style knives. The blades look great, but who knows anything about the knife? It's beyond the reach to be considered a using knife. And, at that level, it's more of a showpiece anyway. So, it doesn't matter. I guess I'm as guilty as anyone, of not using his knives.. It's hard to put your knives to use if you want to keep them in pristine condition. But, it seems like a disservice to the nature of the knife. Knives are meant to be used.

Thanks for all the responses. Coop said it best, the market will dictate to the maker what is important in his knives.
David

 

[Kohai999]

Makers who concentrate on the art of the knife, such as the man who lives in Utah.. (name ) He wins awards with his stunning San Francisco style knives. The blades look great, but who knows anything about the knife? It's beyond the reach to be considered a using knife. And, at that level, it's more of a showpiece anyway. So, it doesn't matter.
David

There are two makers who fit this description

The late, great Buster Warenski, of Richfield, UT and

Steven Rapp from Midvale, UT.

Buster was a hunter, and an avid outdoorsman in general. I have handled many, many of his knives, and all that I handled were heat treated and sharp. I don't think Buster would have made a knife that COULD NOT be used.

It may not matter to you, but it certainly mattered to Buster. RIP, sir.

As far as Steven Rapp goes, I will ask him at the AKI when I see him next weekend, about the performance aspect of his knives.

FWIW, both of these makers work in stainless steel, which as you know, may not be the perfect choice for a purely using knife.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Joss]

Certainly, there are quite a few makers who focus on the art more than on the practical. For example:
- Gil Hibben
- Pierre reverdy
- The makers who work with JD Smith, can't remember their names. They make very fancy Alien-esque folders

Although I am quite certain the blades are properly heat-treated and sharpened, I wouldn't call those pieces practical.

I think there are 2 different things at play though. One is knives thar are built in such a way that they cannot really be used. Those are more "edged sculptures", although this is a continuum (i.e., it's not a black and white thing - some knives are more use-able than others and at some point on the continuum one can say that the use-ability has been sacrificed).

The second is knives that could be used but are so precious and fragile that they never are.

 

[Kohai999]

- The makers who work with JD Smith, can't remember their names. They make very fancy Alien-esque folders

Romas Bainitis and Scott Richter (sp?)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson