Do Companies Care?

tony281sc2

tony281sc2

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Hey guys simple question for y’all, and it may sound stupid, but it seems legit to me…
I am just going to use one specific brand/model for example, since I was just having a quick discussion about this with my Dad…
So, we all know about the old ZT 0392 Limited Editions. They made spear points, Bowie’s, and Wharncliffes, badass right?

Fast forward a few years, to the 0393…
It’s only offered in this “new” Harpoon Spanto blade shape. Even through all the versions (OG, 0393BRZ, 0393SW, 0393GL), they always only kept it to the harpoon Spanto blade…
What I am wondering is WHY??? The Bowie’s and Wharncliffes sell for twice what they did new, surely there’s a market for them. Doesn’t make sense they’d purposely leave money on the table…

My reasoning (only thing I can think of) is because it would significantly devalue the older 0392s.
My father said that the company could care less about secondary prices (maybe it’s about keeping the 0392 customers happy????).

Anyways, if they could sell the Bowie’s and Wharncliffes for $340 (instead of the $450+ for a Bowie & about $800-$900 for a nice 0392/Eklipse Wharncliffe from RHK or ZT)
Why else wouldn’t they? Considering people spend 2-3x the original MSRP, for used knives….surely there must be a market for these knives? I can’t find a MEFP Eklipse for much less than a grand…I’d love to see them in regular production for $450, and easier (possible) to get hands on. I’d probably have 2.

Thanks, this is a serious question I haven’t been able to understand for some time now
 
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bucsfan69 said:
Who knows.. maybe it’s they want the latest and greatest designs, materials, etc.
Somewhere in their reasoning it’s all about money and profit margins…
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Perhaps… but Rick is still pumping these knives out, and just because they may not be the “latest”, they are still great, and ZT could be doing the same thing that RHK is, at least with the 0393. And keep the rest of the models the same …?
Actually something I just thought about was the contract they had…maybe ZT doesn’t have the authority to do a special run (using ricks parts), or maybe (more likely) they were losing money on those full titanium 0392s, selling them for the same price as a G-10 Hinderer …?
 
Good question.

Might be a contractual thing between ZT and Rick ? Maybe the license for the 0392 Pivot expired ?

Note that you and me liking Wharncliffes are in the minority. For whatever reason the majority of people like Spantos (I have no idea why). I can't for the life of me understand why the only XM24 that hasn't been built in triway yet is the Wharncliffe ....

Note also, that if indeed the 0393 came out with a Wharncliffe, the secondary Eklipse prices would drop like a rock. And Eklipse Wharnie and Bowie are exclusives, I believe, which adds to the secondary value.

Roland.
 
I don’t think manufacturers care what the ebbs and flows of secondary pricing means. It’s all about selling to distributors. The bread and butter for ZT are going to be the 562, 452, 308, 450, etc. I doubt they care that Joe Blow spends 2x for a limited/discontinued in the secondary.
 
Here is the natural order of things as I see it:
Companies: make, sell knives
Consumers: buy knives
If a company doesn't make a knife you like, find one that does. All other attachments are meaningless.
 
Just because a discontinued knife commands a premium price on the secondary market does not necessarily mean that a resurrected version would do well. One could even argue the opposite, in that the fact that it is no longer available is what drives the desire for collectors to acquire at higher costs.

If ZT produced new versions of the 0393 with more blade styles, would they sell more overall units or the same number of units spread out over the various sub-models. Certainly collectors would eventually purchase multiple versions, but the majority of pocket knife purchasers would likely only buy the one version they fancy most.

By producing more variety, the manufacturer is sure to increase their producing costs. This is only worthwhile if that additional variety equates to more total units sold to offset the additional production costs.

Likely, when ZT decided to only offer the 0393 with one blade option, they improved their production costs sufficiently enough to justify any reduction in 0392 units sold. This is how companies remain profitable, and that isn't a bad thing.
 
ferider said:
Good question.

Might be a contractual thing between ZT and Rick ? Maybe the license for the 0392 Pivot expired ?

Note that you and me liking Wharncliffes are in the minority. For whatever reason the majority of people like Spantos (I have no idea why). I can't for the life of me understand why the only XM24 that hasn't been built in triway yet is the Wharncliffe ....

Note also, that if indeed the 0393 came out with a Wharncliffe, the secondary Eklipse prices would drop like a rock. And Eklipse Wharnie and Bowie are exclusives, I believe, which adds to the secondary value.

Roland.
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Yes that is true, I didn’t even stop to realize they were exclusives!
I can almost guarantee Rick still cares about the prices, so maybe he doesn’t want ZT giving us consumers any more “discounts”
Also good point MadeOnABench MadeOnABench

I can still hope it’ll happen someday tho lol
 
The really large companies don't care as much. KAI (ZT, Kershaw, Shun, etc) is a large multinational company, I think they probably follow market trends on new knives, not flippers/secondary market, as that would not apply to their bottom line. There also maybe limitations by the companies/makers they collaborate with. Its possible the Rick HInderer saw how much both the ZT and Hinderer brand Wharnies/Bowies go for, and wants to keep a good thing going and only let them be available on Hinderer brand models.
 
If ZT cared they would be pumping out new designs with different knife makers, and also neck knives and fixed blades but instead they just rehash the old stuff.
 
Always keep in mind that knife manufacturers have a bigger target audience than knife snobs and collectors. In the grand scheme of things, companies like ZT probably rely very little on what people on sites like bladeforums bring. The average knife purchaser doesn’t log on to knife forums or go to knife shows. They buy what they see on Amazon or at the big box store… maybe they go to retailers like BHQ or Knifecenter, etc. Very rarely do they sit around swirling bourbon discusssing the pros and cons of spanto vs. slicer vs. Bowie, and what projects Rick Hinderer has with ZT.
 
Re. ZT: Appears to me that they “lost their way” a few years back. Virtually no actual new product with poor, ineffective marketing...if any at all. The manner in which this KAI subsidiary is managed, with little or no imagination and effort, makes it irrelevant in my opinion.
 
Companies care about their bottom line and keeping the shareholders happy. They cater to the masses in order to achieve those objectives. They don’t really care about the end users, there are so many that will buy their products, no need to worry about the ones who don’t.
 
I doubt any knife company really factors secondary market pricing into their decisions. The secondary market is extremely fickle, illogical, and often completely arbitrary.

What companies do often pay attention to is customer feedback. If you want them to make a certain configuration of a knife you like, send them an email. Have your friends do the same, if they’re willing. Stuff like that can, at the very least, put the idea on their radar.
 
DocJD said:
Founders might care . :)

Most of them are gone . :(
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Very true. This is why Sal still checks in at the Spyderco subforum here, or at least he did its been a while since I've been in that subforum.
 
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