Do custom knives appreciate in value?

S

Stompy

Joined
Apr 16, 1999
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I have a custom Elishewitz folder that I am looking to move along in my collection and am trying to estimate its value. Can anyone offer any basic rules of appreciation..or depreciation? How much does it matter if a model is discontinued, or does it just matter to the buyer? Finally, does a makers waiting list have any play on the worth of a knife? Thanks to all replies!!

just getting back to the forums..been away for a little bit
 
There are really no rules of appreciation or depreciation. It all depends on how much the maker in question is demand and how many knives from this maker are available.

A knife that is discontinued could have a higher value depending on how many of them were made and how popular that model was/is. For a collector, current models are kind of an unknown quantity. The collector is not sure how many of this model will be made and may have a harder time judging its popularity. It can also be the case that current models are much more sought after because they are better knives.

I do not follow the value of knives other than the ones in the category that I am interested in. I do however think that Allen's knives hold their value fairly well. From what I have seen of their prices in the second hand market they do not appreciate and tend to see slight to moderate depreciation.

If knives don't hold any interest to collectors you will not often see their prices increase. This is not the case when it comes to the really hot makers, the price of their knives will increase just because there are way more people that want these knives than there are knives to go around. This can be a slippery slope, because todays hot maker can be tomorrows has been.
 
The best way to judge the price is to do a search in the for sale forums and on custom knife websites and see what the current prices are. Maybe there is a website that has your model and you can price it accordingly. The other thing is Allen makes so many knives that are all so simlar that there is not much room for appreciation in value.
 
What about production knives even? In terms of age, is there a real market for production knives from 5-10+ years ago? For example, say theres a swiss army, buck or gerber model you purchased or liked 5 or so years ago that is no longer available. Granted, I wouldn't pay five times what the knife was originally worth, but if I could get one in mint condition, especially for cheaper knives, I'd easily pay double. Any thoughts on this?
 
It all depends on how much the maker in question is demand and how many knives from this maker are available.
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It depends on how actively the maker works to promote a secondary market. There are alot of guys out there that can produce really good knives, and a good portion of those can sell the knives reasonably well; but, the knives that hold their value are the ones made by people who value their customer relationship. It is not just about getting someone to buy a knife; it is about getting someone who has bought one of your knives to come back and buy more.

Randall Made Knives are the old experts at this game. They could have easily expanded their production facilities and cut the wait time from 3 years down to weeks. But, keeping that wait time in place encourages an active secondary market. Instead they invest considerable effort to promote the knives. Just think about how many books and articles have been published on them. They could just shut the door and focus on cranking out knives, but they continue to give interviews, shop tours, and information. Moran, and other well known names, are the same way. You will see them at most shows constantly promoting their knives, whether those knives are on their table, or in their customer's vault. These guys have discovered that as long as their customers knives maintain their value on the secondary market, those customers will continue to come back for more.

n2s
 
Originally posted by Stompy
What about production knives even? In terms of age, is there a real market for production knives from 5-10+ years ago? For example, say theres a swiss army, buck or gerber model you purchased or liked 5 or so years ago that is no longer available. Granted, I wouldn't pay five times what the knife was originally worth, but if I could get one in mint condition, especially for cheaper knives, I'd easily pay double. Any thoughts on this?
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Nope, I wouldn't pay double unless that is what the knife is worth. Just because it is discontinued and I like and want it that doesn't mean I would be willing to pay more than it is worth to get it. Some of the knives from the companies you mentioned will have gone up in value, for example the older Gerber Mk II, some will have stayed the same and some will have gone down. Do your homework and do not pay more for a knife than you have to.

Now in some cases you are going to really want a knife. In the cases where you want that knife so bad you dream about owning it, you may well be willing to pay more for the knife than it is worth just to make sure that it is you that gets this knife. There is nothing with this. A knife is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but the deciding reason for a purchase such as this is lust, not investment. When A purchase like this made the buyer must realize that they may never be able to get their investment back and they should be buying this knife just for the pleasure of ownership.

The last paragraph pertains to custom as well as production knives. We should try to keep our focus on the discussion of custom knives. This is afterall, the Custom Knife Forum. The exception to this is when making an excellent example such as that presented by n2s. This is a great example of how a maker or company can increase the aftermarket value of their knives and is pertinent in a discussion of custom knives.
 
The more unique a piece is the more it will be worth. If a custom maker makes 5 different models but changes the materials around you still have the same basic 5 models just in different materials. If a maker only makes one of a kinds, he dosen't make as many knives but he puts more time into each one making it more unique and worth more in the long run. It may take that maker longer to gain a reputation but when he does his knives will be worth 3X what you paid for yours.
 
I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me, that the custom knife buisiness, is all about craftsmanship. Craftsmen live and die by their reputations. You can build the best knives in the world, but if you don't have a good reputation, they won't bring a premium, and will not appreciate in value. For example, Mayo, Onion, Carson, etc... make fine knives, and have good well established and well deserved reputations. Their knives are in demand, and bring a premium at resale. Obenauf is an up and commer, who's work is comparable with the makers above, but he has a way to go yet, to established himself well. I know of at least a couple customers, (myslef included), that he's irritated. Now nobody's perfect, and nobody can please everybody. Mike has one thing going for him, he makes a nice knife. I personally hope he continues on, to make a first rate reputation for himself, without one, his work with never bring the premiums the big-name makers listed above enjoy. You can buy a usable tool at any hardware store for a tenth of what a custom costs. If you have a few extra bucks to spend, their are manufacturers who produce knives equal in general quality to any custom. CRK, and Microtech for example. Custom knives are prestige items, luxuries. Their value is in the pride their owners take in them. If the experience of having a custom knife made doesn't leave you feeling proud to own it, then what's the point? You might as well buy a nice Benchmade. At least in my humble opinion. JDBraddy
 
Im with Stumpy, I would love a look at the rules of appreciation and depreciation regarding custom knives.

I wish someone would write a book on how to buy custom knives. :D

Stumpy, if you want knives that will appreciate in value. You have to do your homework. Current demand may or may not be a forecasting indicator of future demand.

A knife maker who builds few or only one of a kind knives may or may not be an indicator.

Market position, Qaulity for the Money, Aftermarket demand, business practices and ethics will all enter into the equation.

Short term smaller gains are easier to forecast than long term bigger gains.

You need to understand what you risk aversion level is.

Most custom knives do not appreciate in value. This is for two basic reasons.

1) Most custom knife makers do not view their knives as commodities that will trade in the future for more or (usually) less money.

2) Most custom knive buyers do not view the knives they buy as commodities that will trade in the future for more or (usually) less money.

It is the buyer that utlimately drives the trends and the aftermarket. Most buy what they "like". Some buy with investment potential in mind. These individuals may or may not buy a knife they really want.

As for the value of Allen's knife. Just email or pick up the phone and ask him what the knife sold for originally. Then do a little checking on the different forums.

Good hunting!
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
Im with Stumpy, I would love a look at the rules of appreciation and depreciation regarding custom knives.

I wish someone would write a book on how to buy custom knives. :D
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Actually, I think I remember that someone did write just such a book. I think his name is Les something or another. Have you heard of it?

Kidding aside, I highly recommend that anyone interested in collecting custom knives pick up a copy of Les's book.
 
Originally posted by Stompy
What about production knives even? In terms of age, is there a real market for production knives from 5-10+ years ago? For example, say theres a swiss army, buck or gerber model you purchased or liked 5 or so years ago that is no longer available. Granted, I wouldn't pay five times what the knife was originally worth, but if I could get one in mint condition, especially for cheaper knives, I'd easily pay double. Any thoughts on this?
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With very few exceptions, hard-to-obtain factory knives will appreciate in value by a much higher percentage than custom knives, period. The audience is much greater and the total dollars involved are usually much less.

Examples:
Spyderco Stag Spyderkey: MSRP circa 1989 $50. One sold last year for $187 on Ebay. Appreciation: net increase of 274%.

Tom Mayo TNT: 2002 Cost $450. Early 2003 cost $900. Appreciaton: 100%.

The Mayo involves greater dollars, but the Spyderco nets a greater return. Today, that TNT has dropped back in value to about $700. The Spyderkey has dropped down to about $150.

I can cite many, many more examples of factory knives greatly increasing in value relative to the custom knives. If you want to see depreciation of custom knife value, just take a trip to the Ebay graveyard for lost value in custom knives.

Allen's knives rarely appreciate in value. I know, I have had as many as 5 of them. In fact, Allen's basic models are particularly weak in the secondary market due to high production. His knives seem to do well in shows however.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I was basically looking into a discussion more on worth to someone for their own collection less than actual worth in the market. Personally I don't buy knives to resell in the future, I just buy what I really like. For example, if I wanted to buy an Elishewitz Stryker from his first batch that might be something I would have a very hard time finding, not neccessarily something worth a considerable amount more, but if I really wanted one and finally located one I would probably buy it at any reasonable cost, even above market worth.
 
Generally I agree with Les, but there are some caveats. The first and foremost is KNOW your makers. I can cite some examples where you can get instant "appreciation" if you know what the market will bear, but these opportunities are seen on the secondary market for the most part. I picked up a "new" W. Osborne damascus daggar for $900 on eBay only to find out that it was serial #1 of that model, and the inlays were done in opal matrix and black jade. That was a "money in the bank buy" since Warren charges $1250 for the knife today, and will not do that inlay again due to "technical issues":D . Any Ron Lake interframe you come across for under $3000 in an instant "buy" since there will be no more. If you are willing to wait or be first in line at a show, you can flip a Ken Steigerwalt folder for a 20-25% markup. You probably will never see much depreciation in knives from Osborne, Steigerwalt and big name makers just for the reason that Les alluded to, these knives ARE commodities. I've seen nothing but depreciation in the tactical market with a few notable exception, already mentioned.

Second, KNOW your seller, dealers are unlikely to cut you a deal because they're in the business to make money, but other collectors are a completely different story. I can think of at least three folks I buy from that are happy just to get back close to what they have into a knife, because of a need to "thin the herd" when new orders materialize, or a knife is just about finished by an engraver.
Finally, these folks are often happy to see the knife "going to a good home" rather than on open market.
 
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