Do dropped edges have any disadvantages?

M

matthew rapaport

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Jun 23, 1999
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I've been an amateur chef for a long time and have always appreciated the "dropped edge" in a kitchen knife to protect your fingers from hitting the work surface while pressing down through vegetables or some such. I discover the same principle helps sometimes doing camp chores other than cooking, like shaving wood for fine kindling. Indeed, the dropped edge performs so well at so many things, and no worse than non-dropped edges at most others that I'm wondering what, if any, disadvantages it might have? Why aren't more knives made with this feature?

First, there might be those associated with a wide blade in general. You can't easily turn the knife while working insided the material being cut. OK, but this is a down side to any wide blade whether the edge is dropped or not. Second, there is a theoretical disadvantage in edge placement. That is, a slight twist of the wrist will put the edge further off from its intended placement than would be the case with the same wrist tweak and a non-dropped edge. But I can't think of any practical situation in which this would have a substantial impact except perhaps fast cutting tests like loose hanging rope or cutting a can in half, etc. This issue might come into play in self defense of course, but other than the dropped edge being a disadvantage in a fighting knife, I can't think of what else might be less advantageous in the dropped edge configuration...

Any ideas?
 
I think you arleady brought up the primary objection, that you necessarily end up with a wide blade, and wide blades aren't great for everything. In addition, I think you have serious aesthetic issues with dropped-edge knives -- typically, they don't look as lean-and-mean as a thinner blade with a guard, rather they often look old-fashioned or kitchen-ish, and it's difficult to design your way around that.

Joe
 
Matthew: You have brought up a subject that has been of much interest to me. The dropped edge has a place in the kitchen and for some tasks. The greatest problem with them is that in a field knife the edge that drops below the riccaso is inconvenient and can be hazzardous when the blade hangs up. There are also structural thoughts on stress, but these are of less import. Other than kitchen and specialized knives you don't see them in knives that were made before 1750, then when bar stock bacame more available to the bladesmiths they become more prominent.
 
I have been asking myself the same question lately. Since camp knives are used alot for food prep, I don't see why a kithcen knife would'nt work well. The main disadvantages I can think of have been mentioned. I would guess the most inconvience would come form the lack of fine control due to the wide blade (there is a lot of leverage between the edge and the handle). A sheath would be needed, but the wide blade might make it a little cumbersome for belt carry.
Another advantage to the dropped blade is that the blade acts as a guard to keep your hand from slipping onto the edge.
Interseting topic!
 
Another big advantage of the dropped edge is that, precisely because they "look like kitchen knives", I can find really good knives in the throwaway bins at Goodwill etc. Want a really good beater to throw in a camp roll or tackle box? I've found several "expensive" forged kitchen knives that serve the purpose just fine.
MtMike
 
Ed, what do you mean "when the blade hangs up"? Do you mean hung as in locked into some binding medium as happens for example in chopping wood? Or more like being tangled in guts and not easily drawn out thanks to the dropped built-in guard the dropped edge presents? I can understand how the drop makes it even harder to turn in a binding medium compared to a wide but non-dropped edge.

That advantage mentioned, being able to find some nice field knives in second hand stores is right on. I have gotten some nice kitchen knives that way over the years, but I haven't yet found one quite up to my field knife standards. I'll keep looking though..

Good comments, thanks.
 
Originally posted by frank k
I have been asking myself the same question lately. Since camp knives are used alot for food prep, I don't see why a kithcen knife would'nt work well. The main disadvantages I can think of have been mentioned. I would guess the most inconvience would come form the lack of fine control due to the wide blade (there is a lot of leverage between the edge and the handle). A sheath would be needed, but the wide blade might make it a little cumbersome for belt carry.
Another advantage to the dropped blade is that the blade acts as a guard to keep your hand from slipping onto the edge.
Interseting topic!
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Why yes, yes indeedy! What if I told you there's a small camp knife designed with all of that in mind, available in your choice of flavor (ATS-34, talonite, BG-42, S30V, D-2, etc.)?

Joe
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge


Why yes, yes indeedy! What if I told you there's a small camp knife designed with all of that in mind, available in your choice of flavor (ATS-34, talonite, BG-42, S30V, D-2, etc.)?

Joe
Click to expand...

...and that would be...???
 
Originally posted by frank k
Sounds interesting, Joe. Can you give us some details?
Click to expand...

Phew! I'm glad you took the bait :) Dopily enough, I've forgotten Trace's website, but I found a pic of the knife: http://www.novembre.ws/rinaldi/gallery.htm then click on the TTKK. Everyone else has heard about this knife ad nauseum, but the upshot is, it's designed to be a great light camp knife, serving very well in a camp kitchen, but more robust so that unlike a kitchen knife, it will handle any other small-knife camp jobs.

Hopefully someone remembers Trace's real homepage.

Joe
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge


Why yes, yes indeedy! What if I told you there's a small camp knife designed with all of that in mind, available in your choice of flavor (ATS-34, talonite, BG-42, S30V, D-2, etc.)?

Joe
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Joe, I was about to post that myself...I've always loved your design :)

Oh, and by "etc." I think you mean Damascus :D

damascus3.jpg


RL
 
Matthew: On page 13 of my book Knive Talk, knives #1, 2, 5 & 7 all have the deep riccaso or droped edge. When skinning, opening an animal up or cutting a throat you have to work at it to keep the 'modified fish hook' created by these designs from hanging up. Inconvenient always, dangerous when they become aggrivating or you have to work to get them free from where they are caught. I consider these artifacts of production that have become frimly implanted in the ruts of tradition from a time when 'what for' bacame less important than how.
 
The Rinaldi Line is an excllent example of a dropped edge format. The primary advantage is, that when combined with a full flat grind, a wide dropped edge reults in a blade that is very thin behind the edge. This kind of primary grind geometery results in a very high performace knife. Apply a nice, thin edge and you are talking about a cutting machine.

Trace's work is top-notch.
Here is my album of his knives:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?show_all=1&id=4291972651&start=1
 
The knives pictured in this thread are good designs, the entire blade including the riccaso drop below the handle. The droped edge blades I mentioned are blades where only the edge drops below the riccaso.
 
The droped edge blades I mentioned are blades where only the edge drops below the riccaso.
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I understand the difference, and why it would/could be a problem. I will have to look for that in dropped edge knives and notice the difference. None of my Chef's knives really have a riccaso, or shoulders for that matter. They just drop straight down off the handle, and the blade proper comes right to the end where the dropped piece becomes its own guard.

Trace R. is for now probably the best known for this over-all profile. I think Boye (??) did this a lot too but we don't hear about him so much over here. Most people certainly have high praise for Trace's work, and I was thinking of his knives when I asked the question about dropped edges in the first place.

Why then don't we see this profile (dropped riccaso and edge) more often? Is it just because it looks "kitcheny" too much?
 
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