Do I have to use a leather strop with diamond paste?

[ChrisLee]

Do I have to use a leather strop with diamond paste? Is there a another option that can be used for stropping material? I remember reading somewhere about using magazine paper. Does anyone here use a material other than leather to strop their blades?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

You don't have to use leather. Diamond paste is at it's best when used on wood, like balsa, basswood, poplar, maple, etc (I've liked it on basswood, for example). DMT recommends wood (mdf, balsa) for their Dia-Paste compound, in fact. The wood provides a much firmer substrate for the compound, which will make the diamond work much more aggressively and will also keep your apex crisper in the process. Diamond paste CAN be used on leather, if you want to use it that way; but a firmer backing for the compound will work better in all aspects (polishing speed, edge quality, etc).

The downside to using something like paper is, it'll wear out pretty fast; it's also very easy to accidentally cut/rip the paper when stropping, which might leave a brand new piece unusable. When used with diamond compound, that'll get pretty expensive when you have to reapply compound every time you change the paper.


David

 

[Megabassx7]

If you choose balsa make sure to flatten it out well with a sanding block. Otherwise what David said is how I recommend using it.

 

[ChrisLee]

Thank you for the input. I will give balsa a try.

 

[kelbro]

Leather (on a hard wood backer) works great for me. Doesn't load up or wear out and greatly limits the amount of diamond spray that I have to use.

 

[Steel_Drake]

I'm curious as to why you expect that diamond paste on more flexible substrates would produce inferior results qualitatively?

As far as I have understood it, the flexibility of the strop should mainly influence how much micro-convexing is produced, rather than the quality of the apex finish.

Granted most people probably don't WANT to induce a any significant amount of bevel micro-convecivity and so should choose a firmer substrate, but that doesn't speak to the quality of the apex finish.

You don't have to use leather. Diamond paste is at it's best when used on wood, like balsa, basswood, poplar, maple, etc (I've liked it on basswood, for example). DMT recommends wood (mdf, balsa) for their Dia-Paste compound, in fact. The wood provides a much firmer substrate for the compound, which will make the diamond work much more aggressively and will also keep your apex crisper in the process. Diamond paste CAN be used on leather, if you want to use it that way; but a firmer backing for the compound will work better in all aspects (polishing speed, edge quality, etc).

The downside to using something like paper is, it'll wear out pretty fast; it's also very easy to accidentally cut/rip the paper when stropping, which might leave a brand new piece unusable. When used with diamond compound, that'll get pretty expensive when you have to reapply compound every time you change the paper.


David

 

[dalefuller]

Diamond on balsa is what I use as well. I like the results I get from the firmer balsa medium. I have used diamond paste and spray on leather, but to me it doesn't seem to work as well on leather as the more traditional green / black / white compounds that everyone is familiar with. I have a couple of Brommeland leather strops pre-loaded with green & black compounds that I use for quick evening touchups when I don't want to go to the basement where the knife workbench is. They work well, but getting back to the diamond loaded balsa is really my answer for more aggressive touchups.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I used DMT Dia-Paste on leather for quite a while (a couple years) before trying it on other surfaces (like wood). When I finally did try it out on wood, the difference in edge crispness and speed to polish was night & day. The 'micro convexity' introduced by leather often DOES impact the apex finish detrimentally (by edge-rounding), unless technique is perfect with regards to pressure and held angle, to reduce the tendency of the softer leather to compress and roll around/over the apex. It's a very fine line between 'micro convexing' the bevels and simply rounding off a fine apex; one errant pass at slightly too-high an angle or slightly too-heavy pressure can make the difference. This is why I recommend it's use on a firmer substrate like wood, as it's much more user-friendly in that regard (especially as to use of pressure), as well as much quicker to produce results in polishing.


David

I'm curious as to why you expect that diamond paste on more flexible substrates would produce inferior results qualitatively?

As far as I have understood it, the flexibility of the strop should mainly influence how much micro-convexing is produced, rather than the quality of the apex finish.

Granted most people probably don't WANT to induce a any significant amount of bevel micro-convecivity and so should choose a firmer substrate, but that doesn't speak to the quality of the apex finish.

 

[Steel_Drake]

That sounds reasonable.

I've been experimenting a bit with diamond and CBN abrasives on various substrates, and personally haven't really had any issues with rounding, but I run my edge-bevel angles quite low and use flexible substrates to deliberately induce a convex micro-bevel.

I used DMT Dia-Paste on leather for quite a while (a couple years) before trying it on other surfaces (like wood). When I finally did try it out on wood, the difference in edge crispness and speed to polish was night & day. The 'micro convexity' introduced by leather often DOES impact the apex finish detrimentally (by edge-rounding), unless technique is perfect with regards to pressure and held angle, to reduce the tendency of the softer leather to compress and roll around/over the apex. It's a very fine line between 'micro convexing' the bevels and simply rounding off a fine apex; one errant pass at slightly too-high an angle or slightly too-heavy pressure can make the difference. This is why I recommend it's use on a firmer substrate like wood, as it's much more user-friendly in that regard (especially as to use of pressure), as well as much quicker to produce results in polishing.


David

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

That sounds reasonable.

I've been experimenting a bit with diamond and CBN abrasives on various substrates, and personally haven't really had any issues with rounding, but I run my edge-bevel angles quite low and use flexible substrates to deliberately induce a convex micro-bevel.

The one exception I sometimes make for leather, is when I use a leather belt as a free-hanging strop (both with & without compound). The tendency for the leather to compress, and therefore round off an edge, is reduced when used this way. That's because the strop as a whole will tend to deflect away from the blade if I press into it too hard, so the pressure against the edge is sort of self-regulating and therefore less prone to compression and forming itself around the apex. I also maintain many of my edges at pretty low or very low angles (20-25° inclusive) with thinly-convexed primary grinds, and those knives respond very well to that 'free-hanging' strop technique.

I don't use hard-backed leather at all for stropping anymore, as I've found & liked other alternatives better (such as bare wood, or thin fabric like linen or denim over hard wood). I've even stripped the leather off of some of my strop blocks and 'repurposed' the blocks with linen or denim, all in the name of reducing the effects of substrate compression under the blade's edge.


David

 

[Steel_Drake]

The one exception I sometimes make for leather, is when I use a leather belt as a free-hanging strop (both with & without compound). The tendency for the leather to compress, and therefore round off an edge, is reduced when used this way. That's because the strop as a whole will tend to deflect away from the blade if I press into it too hard, so the pressure against the edge is sort of self-regulating and therefore less prone to compression and forming itself around the apex. I also maintain many of my edges at pretty low or very low angles (20-25° inclusive) with thinly-convexed primary grinds, and those knives respond very well to that 'free-hanging' strop technique.


David

That mirrors my own results.

I run my edge bevels around 20 degrees inclusive and I've had good success so far with using hanging leather and 6 micron DMT paste (I've tried balsa, block backed leather, hanging denim and hanging leather and abrasive particle sizes of 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 16 microns so far).

 

[TravisH]

I use DMT diamond paste on a smooth leather strop backed by maple. Mostly cuz it just seemed like a natural extension of using green compound on leather.

I've seen a YT vid where diamond spray was used on printer paper backed by glass.

I would imagine just about any flat surface could be used.