Do I have valid complaint???

David1967

David1967

Joined
May 10, 1999
Messages
2,769
Guys, I need your opinion here. I have just received a custom knife I wanted very badly. I draw its design (based on the knifemakers designs - not much of a change here) and we agreed the knife would be finished in mid October (so I could pick it up when in US). The knife was done, but upon closer inspection I discovered the blade was different than the one I wanted. No big deal, said the knifemaker, I will do it once again with the exact blade. Fine with me I agreed.

Now, what is the problem? I got the knife yesterday, looked closely at it (BTW the blade is exactly the way I wanted it) and IMO the liner lock is not the way it supposed to be. It touches the blade only in one point - with very small area. I took some pictures:

Here you can see the lock from the bottom of the knife. The blade is fully open.

lock1.jpg


Here is almost the same picture, just from different angle:

lock2.jpg


lock3.jpg


What concerns me most is the gap between the liner and the blade - do you see the bright triangle? I do realize the liner will wear with use but isn´t the top portion (corner) of the liner too far from the blade? Shouldn´t it be a bit closer? The maker says it is OK, I have no reason not to trust him. But I have many linerlcoks and none of them is like that. So I need your imput here. Do you have knife (with liner lock) that looks like this one? If yes, are you happy with it? I will appreciate any input.

David

PS: This is not to bash the knifemaker in question, I just need more info regarding this type of liner lock. If I hear many people have knives with LL like this I will be perfectly happy with my knife. BTW the rest of the knife is excellent and I am looking forward to using it.
 
I make my knives the same way but I put the bevel on from the other angle. The lock is beveled so there is a smaller surface area touching the tang of the blade. If more was touching the tang of the knife the lock would tend to "Bite" when being dis-engaged. To test it open the knife and give it a light spine whack on something soft like a piece of pine. If it dosen't move then the lock is made correctly.
 
Failing the spine whack test or not, that liner lock is not made correctly IMO.

Since there is so little liner in contact with the tang the lock is going to wear out much faster.

I hate to be the one to rain on things but I think the knife needs to be corrected by the maker, sorry.
 
Well, I compared the lock with another custom knife I have (it is almost the same construction) and the lock on the other knife touches the blade tang with its whole width. The lock does not move at all when the knife is open and it is easy to open too.

I also tried the spine whack test with the new knife (I hit only my palm in order not to damage the knife). The knife did not fail the test though but now there is another problem. The liner is not bent enough to move further when it wears out. After opening and closing the knife several times I noticed the liner does not move all the way and the blade now rattles. Oh well - I have a local knifemaker here who will fix the knife for me - I am not going to send it back to US...

David
 
It looks like the angle at which the liner was cut does not match the angle of the lock face (the long angle not the short ramp angle). If a 1/8" or more is making contact it shouldn't be a problem. If there is less contact then it will tend to wear away the liner face. If your local knifemaker peens along the top side of the liner cut he can elongate the lock in that area. Only problem with this is that it also moves the ball detent which can affect the closing action.
 
Originally posted by Sakugenken
David,

Can you post a picture of the whole knife? Is it an auto?

Thanks:)
Click to expand...

No it is not automatic knife... and you can find its picture on my hobby site... In Customs knives.

David
 
If I were you I would send it back to the maker because they usually warrant their own work. And just as a point of reference this is what a good lock should look like.

-Jeff

BTW, this is a Weiland.
 

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Jeff,

Thanks for the picture (BTW my Weston has lock like that). The problem is I would have to spend too much to send it back - I will consult the situation with the local knifemaker and if there is nothing he can do I will send it back.

David
 
The liner lock has been done incorrectly. Send it back!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
It might cost you as much to have another maker fix this problem as it would to send the knife back. Another problem you may well run into is that the original maker may void the warranty if he does not do the work. I would check that out before I had anyone else work on that knife.

I am very surprised that this maker would say that the lock, as seen above, is ok. Have you emailed him these pictures?
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Have you emailed him these pictures?
Click to expand...

How could the maker have missed such a glaring problem?

I would lean towards having someone local fix it because I think the maker will end up justifying the decision to leave the lock that way.

I still can't figure out who the maker is even by following the link to your web page so this is not a shot at any maker specifically.

IMO the entire lock side liner needs made over again, the maker obviously did not want to do that when he/she fitted the correct blade so why would they want to do it now? They had the opportunity to make it right when it was in front of them and chose not to.

"Honesty is defined as doing the right thing even when no one is looking"... or something like that...

Very unfortunate.
 
I too think its not a well executed liner lock. If you want to see a bunch of REALLY good liner locks, see this thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224008&highlight=liners

In my experience, many custom makers are a little weak in this dept, i have seen several liner locks on customs that werent all that well done. Look no further than the Chris Reeve Sebenza if you want to see the liner lock all others are judged by. Perfect contact, perfect geometry, perfict fit. I think the incredibly strong and well made liner lock on the Sebenza is largely resposible for their near cult following.
 
The two photos give a clue to the cause of the problem. On the first
one the blade ramp angle appears to be rather steep thus contributing to the apparent misalignment. If the ramp angle is about 8 degrees a square cut lock bar will sit flat on the ramp in the open position.
 
Send the knife back.Ask maker to fix it.If he refuses DROP DIME.
Shoddy work and you do not have to accept it.
Randy
 
"Honesty is defined as doing the right thing even when no one is looking"... or something like that...
Click to expand...

Bob Terzuola uses a similar quote on the back of his calling card. His liner locks are done properly, perfect fit and lock up.
 
Hi all,

I have just brought this tread up since we have discussion about flaws on custom knives. This was the perfect example of flawed knife.

I e-mailed the knifemaker and he said he does all knives like that and that there was nothing wrong with the knife. I could not return the knife (again) because the cost is too high and also did not want to ask for money back because I supplied my own damascus for bolsters. So I asked Bud Weston to fix it for me and sold the knife to a person who is not that picky.

David
 
David,
I think Mr. Chong's reference to Bob Terzuola's card is appropriate.
Suggestion for future reference is to purchase a copy of Mr. Terzuola's book The Tactical Folding Knife, A Study Of The Anatomy And Construction Of The Liner-Locked Folder.
Study Chapter 4: The Geometry Of The Linerlock.

I can't say that Bob's way is the only way, but I can tell you that following the advice he gives in his book could save a maker a great deal of time and potential frustration. I believe that Bob's text is a true asset to the collector as well as an asset to the makers of linerlocked knives.

The book is a paperback and costs less than $20.00 USD. It is a good investment.

By the way, I don't think you are being "picky" in expressing sincere concerns about a knife you paid for. It is the responsibility of the maker, and you, as a customer, to make you happy with the knife.
 
The thing about this that concerns me the most is that based on what I am hearing from you the maker say's that there is nothing wrong with the knife, makes all his knives that way, but from the way you describe it (unless I am misreading this, the maker is not being sensitive to YOUR dissatisfaction and not giving you any options to turn around your dissatisfaction.

Since this is obviously unacceptable from everyone's standpoint, I think it only prudent to provide as much information on the forum so that other knife buyers do not experience the same problem.
 
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