Do i need diamond stones for s30v?

Z

Zakk Wylde

Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
165
Hi guys;
Im gonna buy Spyderco manix2 from ebay and new models are s30v so im kinda curious about am i gonna be able to sharpen it with my Lansky system?Its the 5 stone kind with the x-coarse(70) to uf(1000).Sometimes even with the x-coarse reprofiling vg-10 takes alot time so a x-coarse diamond stone is gonna make things faster?If its gonna drop it to the chart too.
 
If the edge on your new knife is good, and you use the set to simply touch up & maintain it, you might be OK. IF, however, you end up wanting to re-bevel the edge on the S30V blade, at least one supplementary diamond hone in Coarse/XC would be a BIG help. Doing such a job with the 'standard' hones will be very slow-going, and might also wear them out (I dished two of mine in my 'Deluxe' kit, on an S30V re-bevelling job).


David
 
Thanks man if its like that im gonna buy a xcoarse diamond.Do i need a coarse diamond stone after x-coarse or i can directly proceed to the x-coarse standart hone?
 
Zakk Wylde said:
Thanks man if its like that im gonna buy a xcoarse diamond.Do i need a coarse diamond stone after x-coarse or i can directly proceed to the x-coarse standart hone?
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The standard hones should work fine in the finishing stages, after the initial re-bevelling. In fact, with mine, I noticed they worked quite well following the diamond hone (I only had one medium diamond, when I did my S30V re-bevelling job). I don't think you'd absolutely need another diamond, but it can't hurt. Something to consider, if you have plans to do mirror-polishing of your edges, it's best to stick to a complete sequence in the diamond (followed by the two ceramics in the Deluxe kit, and perhaps stropping with compound afterwards). The C/M/F diamond hones will do better in removing the deep scratch pattern left by the XC diamond hone, which will otherwise be very challenging to clean up by other means. IF, on the other hand, you're not worried about mirrored bevels, just the one diamond hone should do, followed with the standard hones. Just make absolutely sure you fully apex the edge & create a burr, before moving to the 2nd hone. :)
 
ZW, I used Norton's JUM-3 to reprofile a Buck 110 w/ S30V blade steel and it was no problem. A good quality SiC stone will cut it with no issues. At the time I had the X-Coarse DMT, it will reprofile too. Then proceed on to the coarse or fine to finish. DM
 
David Martin said:
ZW, I used Norton's JUM-3 to reprofile a Buck 110 w/ S30V blade steel and it was no problem. A good quality SiC stone will cut it with no issues. At the time I had the X-Coarse DMT, it will reprofile too. Then proceed on to the coarse or fine to finish. DM
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Not so much an issue about abrasive type, with the Lansky set, as with the size of the hones, which are quite small (1/2" wide x ~4" length). I'm sure a large bench hone in SiC or good AlOx could work, but it's the extra surface area that makes the difference there. With small hones, the difference in performance between the diamond and the others is significant (HUGE, actually). And the blade profile & edge thickness makes a difference too, in terms of how much steel needs to come off (flat grind on one version of the Manix in S30V, and my S30V ZT-0350 was a very thick flat-ground blade, versus the thinner hollow grind of a Buck 110).
 
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I was writing and hence didn't see your post until I posted #5.
Yes, edge thickness matters and size of the stones matter. My reference coming from large hand stones, I tend to forget that some use the kits with 1"X4" stones. Which would be very slow going no matter the grit. Plus, as mentioned I've had good success using NOrton's India stones on S30V steel. To your example, I've reprofiled a large 9" carving knife which had a thick edge of 440C on the DMT X-coarse stone the same size as the JUM-3 and this was slow going. From now on I do it on my Norton workhorse stones and save the more expensive diamond stones. DM
 
David Martin said:
I was writing and hence didn't see your post until I posted #5.
Yes, edge thickness matters and size of the stones matter. My reference coming from large hand stones, I tend to forget that some use the kits with 1"X4" stones. Which would be very slow going no matter the grit. Plus, as mentioned I've had good success using NOrton's India stones on S30V steel. To your example, I've reprofiled a large 9" carving knife which had a thick edge of 440C on the DMT X-coarse stone the same size as the JUM-3 and this was slow going. From now on I do it on my Norton workhorse stones and save the more expensive diamond stones. DM
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Something I've noticed that's kind of strange, with high-chromium & relative low-RC stainless like 440C and others (even with 'lowly' 420HC), is they seem to clog a coarse/XC diamond hone very fast (testament to how fast they're removing metal, initially), which does really slow them down. I've noticed this across different brands (Lansky, DMT, Gatco), so I can't blame it on the brand of diamond itself. More often than not, when I do some heavy grinding with diamond on high-chrome stainless blades, I generally go no coarser than the 'coarse' to start, and often start with a medium or even a fine, which doesn't seem to clog as easily. It's a good thing most of my preferred blades are relatively small... :D
 
Yes and it doesn't matter the stone I have to clean it often. I can get around 100 strokes before needing to be cleaned. The coarse 100 grit SiC and the x-coarse DMT 220 grit will remove lots of metal requiring cleaning. Agreed, a small blade is much less work to reprofile. A blade of S30V in the 4+ inch range is a tedious affair. DM
 
Thanks guys for ther replies,im gonna definetly get the diamond hone if i get the s30v one but i asked the seller if they have the older 154 cm verison too(its also cheaper at this seller)
If i get the 154 cm one do i still need diamond hones?Or how do you compare it to vg-10 as for edge holding and easy of sharpening.Its a big step up from 154 cm to s30v?
But if s30v alot harder to sharpen im gonna go with 154 cm :D
 
Zakk Wylde said:
Thanks guys for ther replies,im gonna definetly get the diamond hone if i get the s30v one but i asked the seller if they have the older 154 cm verison too(its also cheaper at this seller)
If i get the 154 cm one do i still need diamond hones?Or how do you compare it to vg-10 as for edge holding and easy of sharpening.Its a big step up from 154 cm to s30v?
But if s30v alot harder to sharpen im gonna go with 154 cm :D
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There's a big difference in abrasion-resistance between those two (154CM vs S30V), due to the much higher vanadium (extremely hard carbides) in the S30V. In fact, S30V has TEN TIMES as much vanadium (4% in S30V vs. 0.4% in 154CM). Abrasion-resistance is what makes the S30V such a challenge to sharpen. I'm sure you'd be happy with either, as they're both excellent, and the 154CM would be easier to sharpen as well (and assuming a hollow grind on that blade, which also makes it easier). The 154CM might also be finer-grained than S30V, which makes for very fine edges. I'd say 154CM is relatively similar to VG-10 in many respects, but VG-10 from Spyderco can form some very stubborn burrs/wire edges, which can be tedious to remove.

Edited to add:
Forgot to specifically mention, you might do OK with your standard hones on the 154CM. If using a diamond hone for it, I'd think a Coarse or Medium would be enough.
 
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I don't know who makes Lanskey's stones but if I were using that I'd go ahead and get the 3 diamond hones for it. I use Norton's bench stones for sharpening my knife with 154CM steel, India or SiC and they work great. The Spyderco chart shows that steel to have no vanadium. Perhaps your chart is of a different origin. Should you decide on 154cm, it is a very good working steel as long as the heat treat is sound. I perfer it to S30V. DM
 
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I've sharpened my Sage I and mini DejaVoo on my Norton IB8 combo stone, took a bit longer than expected, but not outrageously long.

I recently got a Spyderco fine ceramic stone. I do the initial sharpening on the Norton, then go to the ceramic. Seems to work for me.

Ric
 
Yes, agreed Norton's IB-8 works well for that steel. A few weeks back thats the stone I used to sharpen my knife of 154cm, it tuned it right up in short order. Plus, removed the burr on the stone so no need to strop. It was dull but not excessive, so it only took me 20-30mins. work on the fine side. DM
 
David Martin said:
I don't know who makes Lanskey's stones but if I were using that I'd go ahead and get the 3 diamond hones for it. I use Norton's bench stones for sharpening my knife with 154CM steel, India or SiC and they work great. The Spyderco chart shows that steel to have no vanadium. Perhaps your chart is of a different origin. Should you decide on 154cm, it is a very good working steel as long as the heat treat is sound. I perfer it to S30V. DM
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This is what I've referred to, for knife steel composition:
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php?snm=154cm

At the small level shown for vanadium (0.4%), it serves basically as a grain-refiner. Not much, if any, impact on carbides though, at that level. In terms of ease of sharpening, it would be insignificant. There's a note there, about CPM-154 (powder metal version of 154CM) which says it may have some 'residual' vanadium at ~0.4%, but not intentionally, according to the manufacturer.

154CM is essentially identical to the Japanese ATS-34 in chemistry, and I've not had significant troubles sharpening that with the standard Lansky hones, although the diamond always speeds things up. On a hollow grind blade, it goes pretty quick anyway.
 
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I do remember some talk of adding that element to it's mix. Yet, the last time I purchased some (last year) the analysis sheet that came with it showed none. So, unless it's been added since then... Yes, identical in elements to ATS-34 but its mfg. process of vacuum remelt takes it a step higher than the other (resulting in a cleaner/ purer product). Plus, it carries the 'USA Made' on its label and noteworthy is the bar stock of this steel per foot is over twice the cost of ATS-34 and customers are willing to pay for the difference.
However, if it has it or not,(agreed) that small amount would have little effect in the final product. Up in the 1-2% range should make a difference. My two cents. It's still in my book a great steel and would make my short list amoung the top six cutlery steels. DM
 
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