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I am looking for a hard use blade, what are the pros & cons of it versus the 15" AK? Thanks.
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Do I really need a chiruwa Ang khola?
- Thread starter Bitterroot Sherpa
- Start date
Bawanna
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Either would be a good hard use blade. Both are pretty similar with similar handling characteristics.
About as tough as they come. I have a 20" AK and it's a real heavy duty knife.
So in summary the short answer is Yes.
Now the question is do I need a Chiruwa AK because you should have one and as much as it pains me I think the answer is the same for me, a definite Yes.
About as tough as they come. I have a 20" AK and it's a real heavy duty knife.
So in summary the short answer is Yes.
Now the question is do I need a Chiruwa AK because you should have one and as much as it pains me I think the answer is the same for me, a definite Yes.
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Here are some factors I recall being mentioned before:
CAK: warranted for field use and as prybar
AK: warranted for field use (tang is plenty strong)
CAK: 16.5" is common length but available in other lengths
AK: 15" is a common length but available in other length
CAK: usually more metal in handle than AK
AK: could be more forward balanced than CAK (arguably better balance for chopping and perhaps less ideal balance as weapon)
CAK: exposed metal in handle needs a little attention to keep from rusting.
AK: metal in handle surrounded by wood; hand contacts wood only
CAK: full exposed tang reputedly transmits more shock to hand
AK: wood around tang reputedly absorbs some shock
CAK: handle slabs reputedly easier to replace
AK: handle replacement reputedly more complicated
Anything else I'm forgetting?
CAK: warranted for field use and as prybar
AK: warranted for field use (tang is plenty strong)
CAK: 16.5" is common length but available in other lengths
AK: 15" is a common length but available in other length
CAK: usually more metal in handle than AK
AK: could be more forward balanced than CAK (arguably better balance for chopping and perhaps less ideal balance as weapon)
CAK: exposed metal in handle needs a little attention to keep from rusting.
AK: metal in handle surrounded by wood; hand contacts wood only
CAK: full exposed tang reputedly transmits more shock to hand
AK: wood around tang reputedly absorbs some shock
CAK: handle slabs reputedly easier to replace
AK: handle replacement reputedly more complicated
Anything else I'm forgetting?
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This is not true.
It is much easier to replace an full handle on an AK than it is to replace the slabs on a CAK.
On an AK- you just grind off the peening, boil the handle and then remove it.
To replace all you need is a hole thru the handle. Add glue and slip the handle on, let dry, then glue cap and keeper and peen the tang down.
On a CAK- You drill the handle pins out, then boil or knock the slabs off (if you can).
To replace requires much more fitting and adjusting to get it to come out right. Then you must glue the slabs down and add new pins and peen them tight.
It reminds me of the man who wondered whether he needed a yacht. If you have to ask, the answer is probably no.
Seriously, it sounds like you are being sensible and don't want to get more blade than you actually need. As Steve Tall pointed out, you can get a CAK or AK in various lengths, the range 15"-20" being most common. The longer blades can be a lot heavier, but even that varies quite a bit since these are forged by hand. Steve and Karda covered some of the other issues.
There's no one answer because it depends on your fitness level and the strength of your wrist and arm, also on what kind of hard use you have in mind. Both AK and CAK are designed and constructed for heavy chopping. You need enough weight to make each chop count, but not so much that it tires you out. If you give some more detail about your expected use, you might get more specific advice by forumites.
I suspect from your question that you've been looking at the HI website store, which gives the impression that each model comes in one or two sizes/weights. If you spend a little time on this forum and watch the DOTDs posted by Yangdu (or use the search facility in the upper right hand corner), you'll get a better idea of the many possibilities. In my opinion, getting the right weight is more important than getting the perfect length, unless perhaps you have a very specialized application, such as cutting down giant cactus plants.
There are several other models that are in the same ballpark as the Ak and CAK as choppers: Bonecutter, Ganga Ram, M43, ASTK, and they come up as DOTD (Deal of the Day) fairly often. Again, use the search facility.
Many people end up with more than one khukuri, as they tend to be addictive. You might want to consider a KLVUK as your first because they are relatively inexpensive and quite effective. Yangdu posted several of those as DOTDs just today. I don't know if any are still available, but in any case the photos and descriptions can give you an idea.
By the way, to avoid misunderstanding, when HI states a length for a khukuri it means overall length, not blade length.
-- Dave
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Okay, but I did say "reputedly" since I knew at least one person prefers the CAK because he believes otherwise (and I don't recall his claim being disputed before):
Karda:
I think that some of the past comments about slabs being easier to replace were by people who were thinking of temporary fixes in the field, such as wrapping paracord around a tang, which we see a lot of on Bladeforums. However that would work better for a smaller or lighter weight blade, such as a knife designed for self-defense or light camp usage. It would be difficult or unsafe to do heavy chopping based on a temporary fix like wrapping paracord around the tang of a broken CAK handle.
-- Dave
Oh, I know you didn't say it, Steve....
I see it repeated all over the site.
For some... they may feel slabs are easier to replace, for them......
But as a general rule, it doesn't hold water.
I've replaced both styles and I can say from experience that a regular handle is quite a bit easier and less time consuming than a chiruwa handle.
I see it repeated all over the site.
For some... they may feel slabs are easier to replace, for them......
But as a general rule, it doesn't hold water.
I've replaced both styles and I can say from experience that a regular handle is quite a bit easier and less time consuming than a chiruwa handle.
wildmanh
Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker
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To answer your first question "Do I really need a Chiruwa Ang Khola?", It all depends on your intended use for the tool. If you could tell us about your intended use, maybe we could answer it better.
As for your other question, I think Steve Tall and others covered it. So I will say this, Welcome to the Forums!
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Slabs are easier to fix in a pinch.
All you need is a cylindrical piece of wood of an appropriate diameter. You split it in two and poke two small holes in each slab. Through these holes you secure the slab on the tang with two wooden pegs. Wooden pegs and not metal? They work on full length Katanas so no worries.
Split a piece of wood, carve it a bit if you need to and make 4 small holes and two pegs. Easy to do in the field and all you need for these steps is your broken Kukri and maybe a pointed stone for poking the little holes.
Now how do you repair a handle with a hidden tang? One piece of wood which you don't even need to split and carve. Sounds easier at first until you have to find a way to drill a very long hole into your new handle and find glue to make your tang stick in it. Waiting for tree sap in Spring? Boiling bones?
Edit: if you really have tools to drill deep holes and glue then you can do the same to create a full tang handle as well. Take a bigger piece of wood, don't split it, drill a bunch of holes in a line fill the resulting big hole with glue and ram your full tang into it. Now it has become a hidden tang and the handle is bigger but it should still be working great. Shows that full tang is either fixable with less tools but also possible to be fixed the hidden tang way if somebody prefers that and thinks that's easier.
All you need is a cylindrical piece of wood of an appropriate diameter. You split it in two and poke two small holes in each slab. Through these holes you secure the slab on the tang with two wooden pegs. Wooden pegs and not metal? They work on full length Katanas so no worries.
Split a piece of wood, carve it a bit if you need to and make 4 small holes and two pegs. Easy to do in the field and all you need for these steps is your broken Kukri and maybe a pointed stone for poking the little holes.
Now how do you repair a handle with a hidden tang? One piece of wood which you don't even need to split and carve. Sounds easier at first until you have to find a way to drill a very long hole into your new handle and find glue to make your tang stick in it. Waiting for tree sap in Spring? Boiling bones?
Edit: if you really have tools to drill deep holes and glue then you can do the same to create a full tang handle as well. Take a bigger piece of wood, don't split it, drill a bunch of holes in a line fill the resulting big hole with glue and ram your full tang into it. Now it has become a hidden tang and the handle is bigger but it should still be working great. Shows that full tang is either fixable with less tools but also possible to be fixed the hidden tang way if somebody prefers that and thinks that's easier.
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Sorry for not posting more information in my original post. I was on my I phone & was keeping the fat finger typing to a min. Anyways, I am looking for a blade to take on extended trips into the Bitterroot/Selway Wilderness area of MT/ID. Unknown to many, it is the largest official wilderness & also the largest unbroken piece of forest in the lower 48. I would be using it for all sorts of mundane everyday chores. I would also be using it for not so mundane tasks such as chopping firewood & shelter building. It *may* even get pressed into service for some mild "latrine" digging. I would also be using it for skinning & rendering game. The bottom line is that I cannot have a blade fail a as I will not be able to get a suitable replacement on that trip. This would be most inconvenient! I will be on foot a great deal & am concerned about the weight & "packability". If I can find one tool to be my axe/hatchet, entrenching tool & general purpose knife that would be great. I do understand that it is kind of a "jack of all trades, master of none" & that there are tradeoffs. But I guess what I'm asking is can a CAK be carried all day for many days? Or would I be equally well served with an AK, or KLVUK? As to me I am in decent shape & spent 10 years in the Infantry (USMC & USA). While not in "fighting trim" any more, I am very strong in my upper body. Climbing mountains is not too serious of a butt kicker for me. The flip side of that coin is that I am "vertically challenged". Thanks again.
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I def think you should get a kvluk and a heavier khuk or just use axe in its place, the KVLUK is just a basic all purpose field khukri -- I am bias though I think they are all great and will never fail you ! a just reaad a thread about a guy using an m43 to live off the land for many months.
Bawanna
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I'd probably go kvluk. The Ak is a great knife but it's gonna be very heavy to pack. Grab one of them kvluks on DOD yesterday. The lighter ones are still available and get the sheath Auntie offers too, you'll need it.
That and a small axe and you should be able to take over the wilderness.
That and a small axe and you should be able to take over the wilderness.
wildmanh
Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker
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Thanks for the information, that helps a ton! Sounds like a great trip. I can see why you'd want a Do-Everything Khukri. Consider a small plastic or stainless steel folding trowel. You can find them at most camping and Big Box stores for Under $3 (plastic) to $20 (USA Made stainless). Even though I have dug with my 15" Sirupati and 15" AK's and other knives (USMC Short Ka-Bar, BK9 ect. . . ) I prefer my trowel. It's light weight disapears in the pack until needed and saves me from havign to sharpen my blades so often.
The Chiruwa AK is going to be heavier then a standard AK of the same length, all else being Equal. There's more steel in the handle. A Chiruwa handled AK made from thinner stock may be lighter. But in General, a Chiruwa is Heavier. At least in my experience. And I have handled, owned and still own both handle styles. For Pack-ability especially long term, I'd be looking at a Standard 15" AK, a 16.5" WWII or the KLVUK. Those are 3 of the top General Purpose Khukris in that size range. My go to Khukri is a 16.5" WWII that's on the lighter side.
Which ever blade you end up choosing, be sure to Test it a ton at home before going out. There is a thread on here that talks about testing a blade before taking it into the field. Read it and follow it! Also, follow the guide lines in the Safety thread. I was featured in the last one 10 years ago as one of the examples of what happens when you slip up!
All of my new blades get a work out at home on old Fence posts, chopping blocks and the like, before I take them into the field. Good luck picking your blade and have a great trip!
Thanks for the additional information.
For the kind of usage you describe a KLVUK might be ideal. The other models discussed tend to run significantly heavier and a KLVUK should be plenty strong. Do test it in advance as wildmanh recommends in his posting.
One benefit of the KLVUK is price. They seem to go for half or a little more than half of the other models. Instead of being polished or given a satin finish, the forging scales are left on and less labor is put into the cosmetics, but there is no loss of strength or functionality. Your usage will probably rough up a polished or satin blade anyway. If you get a wooden handle, give it several coats of tung oil or other coating before a trip. If it's a horn handle, hooflex might be best, or a long soaking in mineral oil.
Sounds like you're fit enough to carry a CAK on long trips, but weight is always an issue. Instead of a CAK you could carry a KLVUK and a lightweight trowel for the same total weight.