Do knives that are steeled need to be sharpened once in a while with

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DavidL41

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Oct 12, 2014
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My question is are knives that are (mild steel?) steeled need to be touched on a stone once in a while? Does A high carbon knife that uses green compound, how often does this knife dull and need to use a compound?

My next question is what RC are these steeled knives, and are they low carbon steels that can only get heat treated to a low RC.
 
1 Yes
2 Depends on knife and knife use. It's your call.
3 I'm sure they vary by maker. Look them up and check out the specs.
 
Yes. Most of the time steeling is just to fix minor edge issues but if it's done alot that edge will get weaker and weaker and you will have to get rid of the old edge.by running it down a stone and then re apex and sharpen.
 
SOLEIL said:
3 I'm sure they vary by maker. Look them up and check out the specs.
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I do not know much about knives that are steeled. I search mild steel knife and I think thats not correct. What are the names of these knives?

Are the steels the same steels that can be made to 60RC but they heat treat to 50RC (or the correct RC for steeled knives.) so that it can be steeled?
 
Mo2 said:
Yes. Most of the time steeling is just to fix minor edge issues but if it's done alot that edge will get weaker and weaker and you will have to get rid of the old edge.by running it down a stone and then re apex and sharpen.
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Are these knives the same steel as the High RC treated knives, just heat treated to a low RC?

My preference is the high RC steel and using sanding drums or paper sharpening machines to touch up knives. I can't understand if there are benefits of using a low RC knife like they do in shoemaking?
 
Yes, one can steel a blade 3-4 times and return the edge to sharp. But each time you steel this is weakening the edge bevel and at some
point it will fold and not return to stand. Then you'll need to sharpen it and put a new strong bevel on it. DM
 
DavidL41 said:
My question is are knives that are (mild steel?) steeled need to be touched on a stone once in a while?
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Yes, but in some cases when using a more aggressive grooved steel you can go a long time, months or more without needing a stone. The higher the RC the less well this works. Many common kitchen (Western) knives run high 40s to low 50s Rockwell.


DavidL41 said:
Does A high carbon knife that uses green compound, how often does this knife dull and need to use a compound?
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Depends on what you're doing, but generally it will need to be returned to a stone every so often. The harder the strop the less often...generally.

DavidL41 said:
My next question is what RC are these steeled knives, and are they low carbon steels that can only get heat treated to a low RC.
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See above.
You can steel harder knife steels but will work better if just using a smooth steel or finer grooved one. On higher Rockwell steels, a coarse grooved steel acts like a file - won't do a good job.
 
HH, I don't know How those meat cutters can Slap their knife around on a steel and come out with it Not damaged. Ha, many times it is.
It takes a right touch on a steel to finesse the edge back in alignment. If you have trouble sharpening on a stone, you'll have trouble using
a steel. I've watched them, they mostly use a edge leading stroke. Well, this Is NOT bending the edge bevel back in alignment. This is folding
it over and scraping it off. A different maneuver than what I'm talking about. The stroke I use is edge trailing which IS straightening the
folded edge back straight and does work and weakens the edge. Later, to a point that it can no longer withstand the downward pressure of
a cutting stroke and Will fold when you attempt a cut. That's when you have to create a new edge. DM
 
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What I noticed is steeling worked the best when done on a relatively coarse edge and followed with a smooth steel.
As it dulls the smooth steel plastically deforms the high points into a smooth edge. After repeated bouts the the steel has nowhere to go but out from the apex, this is when the edge becomes progressively weaker and needs to be fixed on an aggressive grooved steel or stone.
 
I use a honing steel like a vertical sharpening stone that happens to be round (and smooth). I do edge-leading strokes, light pressure, alternating sides, at the same general angle they were sharpened to. I don't slap the knives around - my strokes are slow and deliberate like when I use a stone. It seems to make a difference - no more reflected glints of light from the apex and they cut well again.

I don't use a hone on all of my kitchen knives, just those with softer blades that respond well to it.

I use stones when needed. With the soft steels that respond well to a steel hone, I find that they also respond well to Arkansas stones.

Other people may have different observations or preferences, based on their own set of kitchen knives and how they use them. The above is what works for me.
 
I had a hard time trying to understand the questions being asked. Glad to see some of you gentlemen jumped in to give David a hand.
David, "mild steel" is steel that is low in carbon content. Too low to make a good knife out of. It has a Carbon content between 0.05% and 0.25%. Also called "structural steel", used in buildings.
A knife should have at least 0.5% carbon, preferably 0.7% and above. The vast majority of factory stainless steel kitchen knives use a stainless steel that has only around 0.5% carbon in them, plus a few other alloys like Moly and Chromium. This, being a relatively low carbon content, will only achieve a hardness of ~ mid 50s HRC after hardening/quenching/tempering. They simply cannot be made any harder, due to their chemistry. A "butcher's steel" (sharpening rod) works quite well for "general maintenance" of these knives/steels, as the "butcher's steel/rod" is a lot harder than the blade steel. Think knives like Whustoff, Henckels, Victorinox, Chicago Cutlery, etc.

But when using a better blade steel that is harder, like 60HRC and up, a "butcher's steel/rod" isn't the best choice, as the edge is approaching the same hardness of the butcher's steel, often exceeding it in hardness. This is why a "ceramic rod" is often recommended when doing maintenance on better/harder blade steels.

And has been discussed already, you will eventually need to go back to the stones to re-establish a solid edge apex after a number of sessions of using the rod (or green compound). When do you need to go to the stones? That is a function of a few variables, like how often the knife was used, what it was used on, user technique on the butcher's steel, etc.
 
I've gotten best use out of a smooth (polished) steel, used on simpler kitchen stainless knives of the variety mentioned above by Stuart (Victorinox, Chicago Cutlery, Farberware, etc). I use edge-leading passes in a manner similar to that seen by cooks/chefs using them (rod in one hand, knife in the other), though not nearly as frantic or heavy. I start each pass with the angle somewhat lower than the set edge angle, then gradually raise the spine to 'sneak up' on the cheeks of the apex going into & through each pass on the rod. As such, I can keep my simple kitchen knives sharp for a few weeks at a time, after which the edge eventually gets weak in the manner described by David Martin earlier, i.e., the edge will fold very easily under a light load, even under pressure from the edge of thumbnail. It's a very noticeable and radical change in the behavior of the edge in use. That's the cue I look for, to take the blade back to the stone; I usually use a Fine India for that. Scrub the weak steel off, with the edge vertical against the stone, then reset the edge. Takes maybe 10 or 15 minutes at a leisurely pace on the stone. Then I'm back in business for a few more weeks' time, using just the smooth steel to keep them cutting. Works very well.

I also have & use a tiny, pocket-sized honing steel (grooved; marked 'Sheffield') that came with a couple of my Victorinox SAKs. It's a very aggressive hone, and removes steel easily from such knives (Vic, Case/Buck 420HC, etc). It's quite handy for quick touch-ups in use. I keep one of them on my key fob.
 
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Steel is handy and gives toothy edge on softer knives,but stone should be used too after you steel for number of times and edge gets dull quickley or you dont have sharp edge use stone and youre back in business.Steels are good for meat cutting industry ,to put quick edge on knife,ive never seen strops used by butchers.
 
jc57 said:
I use a honing steel like a vertical sharpening stone that happens to be round (and smooth). I do edge-leading strokes, light pressure, alternating sides, at the same general angle they were sharpened to. I don't slap the knives around - my strokes are slow and deliberate like when I use a stone. It seems to make a difference - no more reflected glints of light from the apex and they cut well again.
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jc, Good, as this is the manner it should be done. In commercial use businesses I see people doing all sorts of stuff. DM
 
lonestar1979 said:
Steel is handy and gives toothy edge on softer knives,but stone should be used too after you steel for number of times and edge gets dull quickley or you dont have sharp edge use stone and youre back in business.Steels are good for meat cutting industry ,to put quick edge on knife,ive never seen strops used by butchers.
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lonestar, in my entire territory of meat markets (12) I see one or 2 strops hanging. And these are in old meat cutters shops with 30+ years. These guys devoted their best years to the trade and can break beef. Not the cryo-vac cutter who gets in a large package and cuts it into smaller pieces, lays it on a tray and out to the show case. Thus, relegated is the meat cutter of today. DM
 
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