Do You Really Use A Choil?

S

Scott Free

Joined
Sep 15, 1999
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I'm considering either the Swamprat Bandicoot, the Howling Rat or perhaps one of Swamprat's new D2 models. The problem is-- I really don't like the included choils. I prefer size efficient knives and a choil trades away an inch or so of cutting edge. The knife becomes an inch longer than it needs to be for a feature I think I'd rarely, if ever, use. Also, I would think that the material that was being cut might slip down into the choil thus stopping the cut.

All this said-- I don't have hands-on experience with this feature so I can't really say if its worth trading cutting edge and carrying a longer knife for this particular feature.

So-- for those of you that DO have hand-on experience, do you really use the choil. If so, how often?

Scott
 
I picked up an inficoot a few months ago. In my opinion, the coil really detracts from the knife. When I first recieved the knife I liked the coil, but now that I've used it more over the last few months I have changed my mind. I've found that I never use the coil, however I have to make sure that what ever I'm cutting doesn't slip down into the coil. Overall I really like the knife, but chances are I'm going to start carring something else instead because of that coil.
 
I don't like any fixed blade custom without a choil, as I use it almost every time I use it, especially in skinning and around camp, house.
 
I'm assuming you mean the part of the blade that has the full dimension of the blade stock.

If so, yes, I use it. When it's on the Edge-Pro, I can hold this flat to the sharpening bed, and I get a good solid, and repeatable position for sharpening. If the knife is 4 inches or less, I never have to move the knife, just polish.
 
A choil on a camp knife is a good thing. Say you have a knife with a 7" blade, 1" of it being a choil; you have 6" of blade with which you can just use the handle or choke up and use the choil for more control. Yeah it's an inch longer than is has to be but you'll appreciate it if you need to chop with it, clear a trail, or have a duel with Lynn Thompson.
 
The choil on my Camp Tramp is one its best features and I use it frequently. It makes a large knife into a medium sized knife for tasks requiring a bit more control. I think if you tried it you would really find it very effective and helpful.
 
Personally,
I do not like choils on knives, including fixed blades. Not only does the feature mean that you will have less usable edge on the blade, I consider them to be somewhat dangerous. Most choils are sized such that it is very easy to slide out of the choil, up onto the sharpened edge. I prefer designs that have the sharpened edge coming back as close to the guard as possible, and allows your lead finger to get as close to the back of the guard as possible. This gives close in control, and safety.

But that is just me:)
 
You fellas having a problem with the choil taking away an inch of blade length-----

That extra inch of cutting edge will make the difference in?

Please explain to me how a knife that has a choil and is one inch shorter than it COULD be on a particualr blade will make a difference in anything you do with a knife.

Thanks, can't wait to hear some of the answers to this question.

Brownie
 
Well,

In a (sort of) response to Brownie's (loaded) question. I'd say that I feel that it is most useful to have the cutting edge as close as possible to your hand for doing intricate, detailed work. If you're doing fine work which requires fine control, it's just 'handier' and more comfortable to be able to hold on to the (hopefully) comfortable handle of a knife, rather than 'choke up' on the blade which is almost NEVER as comfortable as a proper handle. I don't think that a 1" choil makes much sense on a 4" blade, but I'm sure there are times when it does.

Obviously some users (and makers) disagree. that's why there's more than one kind of knife out there.

I DO see the advantage of a choil used on a larger knife. As Marcelo stated previously; it allows a large knife to be used with a bit more control when doing 'outdoorsy' things, while still giving you the extra length an weight to chop things if you want to have one knife that can do most things reasonably well.

I'd also agree with Will regarding poorly designed choils, but I don't think that they are universally unsafe if designed properly.

I, personally, am of the dedicated chopping tool/dedicated cutting tool mindset.

For 'woodsy' stuff I prefer a small 3" fixed blade coupled with a good hatchet.

Having said all that I DO really like knives that incorporate a nice choil INTO THE HANDLE (a la: Spyderco Perrin, Benchmade AFCK, etc...) but I really don't like a choil in front of the guard of a knife.


Thanks for reading my ramble,

-John
 
I'll take a "stab" at answering brownie's question. But I'm going to keep my response specifically on kitchen knives.

When using knives for fast kitchen work like slicing, a choil definitely gets in the way.

In the first place, the absence of material at the part of the blade (the heel) where the most force can be leveraged reduces downward cutting potential. I'd also say that it can make cutting less precise. Also, during that type of slicing, the forward push/slide of the blade on soft material (think zucchini or even cutting meats) is followed up by a quick backward/upward pull, then repeated. A choil would tend to "catch" on the stuff you're cutting.

I've never seen a butcher's knife or a kitchen knife with a big choil. The blade usually runs right up to the bolster or guard.

That being said, I can see the utility of a choil in larger knives. In fact, I have several. But I have to say that I'd prefer all my blades without choils because I'm one of those guys who likes to work with the back end of the knife.
 
My problem with the coil is not that I loose an inch of cutting edge, it's that the coil is located in an area on the blade that I would normally find useful on these types of knife blades without the coil. In addition I have found that the coil does tend to catch material at times.

I personally have never needed to use the coil on such a small knife. I understand the use of a coil on larger knives used for chopping, but not ones with a blade under 4 inches. The tip control you get from the change in grip is minimal on such a small knife and the new grip is insecure. The portion of the blade you are giving up for the placement of the coil I find to be very valuable for hard push cuts, heavily used (at least in my case), and you actually loose some control for more forceful cutting because you're moving the base of the cutting area further from your hand, in addition you now have to apply more force to make the cut.

This is why I don’t like the coil, not because my knife now only has 3 inches of blade compared to 4 inches. It’s the part of the blade that I’m loosing for a convenience I’ve never needed.

I’m not saying that some people my not find a coil useful on a small blade, I just don’t find it useful and can’t think of a way to make it useful. Can someone give me an example of how choking up on a small blade (under four inches) using a coil gave them noticeable better tip control for any task?

Despite my anti-coil expressions, I do like swamp rat knives and I think the coil would be very useful on the larger models.

*just read the above post, I believe panella explained it much clearer than I.*
 
Originally posted by anthony cheeseboro
I like choils on folders. My Spyderco Native would not be comfortable at all without a choil.
Click to expand...
I second his opinion. Albeit on a bigger knife, that may not be needed because that may not be the intended task.
 
It's worth noting that on a folder a choil can negate the worry of a knife closing on you, if designed well.

-John
 
It seems to me, like others have said, that a choil makes sense for big blades but not for smaller ones of 5" or so. Reason: the whole point of a choil is to allow control for detail work. This is necessary on big blades with big "chopping-friendly" handles, beacuase a big blade is harder to control, esp. with a bulky handle. So the choil brings the hand in closer to the blade, with a less bulky grip, for finer control than you could get from a big handle that is further from the center of balance than the choil is. I don't really see a choil being so useful on a smaller blade with a less bulky handle, because you should already be able to get enough control for fine work. HOWEVER, this can vary from one design to another; for instance on a thick but shorter blade, like a Busse or some Swamp Rats, a choil could provide an appreciable increase in control when needed.

As for choils in folders, this is a diffrerent issue - the choil is there as a design element that allows a full hand grip, while permitting a smaller handle and therefore les overall bulk in the pocket. You get a full grip out of a 3-finger handle because the fourth finger grip comes from the blade's choil. Spyderco uses this design approach very well, with the Native, Calypso Jr., Dragonfly, etc.
 
I'm finding the choil on my new RAT7 a big bonus. I'm tending to use the knife a lot more for fine work. My spyderco Military has the same feature and I'm always choking up on it.

It is a bit more risky having the flexor tendon of your index finger that close to a razor sharp edge. But a but of common sense negates this eg using the full hadle when stabbing, hammering or making forcefull cuts.
 
I will add one use that I haven't seen mentioned yet. I designed my big Bowie with symmetrical a coffin handle, so I can hold it edge up and use the sharpened false edge for certain tasks. Due to the symmetrical handle, I often put my finger in front of the guard and feel the blade to make sure which way the main edge is facing. (I know 95% of the time anyway; it's just to verify) If the sharpened edge went all the way to the guard, I'd be cut if I tried this. Now, the choil and ricasso were designed for other purposes already mentioned, but I discovered this as a side benefit.
 
I use the choil on my Becker Magnum Camp regularly for finer control on more detailed cuts.
 
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