Do you test under pressure?

C

Chariot

Joined
Jul 9, 2000
Messages
173
I'm curious if anyone on the forum has trained their FMA under pressure? Setting up as close to reality as possible scenarios.

From what I know there's no real good protective gear available so you really can't use real knifes, but unless you know how you will react under pressure, you have no idea your training will work for real.

You NEED to find out.

So please tell me your views and experiences on this.

Regards,
Chariot

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Bow to the Bowie!
 
Unfortunately, some things cannot be adequately duplicated in some instances and the real pressure both from a psychological point of view and from a physical reality-coming from the attacker...well, you have to rely on muscle memory and other things to make up for that.

If someone has never been scared, how can you describe the concept and reality of "fear" to them? You never would be able to do that. Everyone knows a little bit of fear, at some time in their life, they have been fearful of something, I'm just using that as an example.

My Wife, for example...when we work together on various scenarios, etc., when I grab her, I mean it. If I choke her, I mean it. I don't choke her out, but she has reported seeing The Milky Way on occasion, and I won't release until I am satisfied that the pressure exerted by her, via a training knife, is such that I would be damaged enough to effect a physical release of her.

This is just one instance...there are others.

And no, there probably is not a whole lot better and there is a ton of things worse you could do.

So...in answer to your question, short of leaving a stack of bodies behind you, I don't think you are going to get the answer that you are seeking in this matter.

Another thing that one can do before practicing is running up and down some stairs, or some other physical exertion to get the hands a little bit shaky, makes all of the difference in the world when it comes to accessing, grasping, drawing and/or opening an edged weapon.

It works for the SEALs when they practice with firearms, it can work for everyone else too. The object being, if you cannot duplicate the actual adrenaline dump, you can try to duplicate the effects of it, shaky hands, etc.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
I think that's some good examples and that's what I'm looking for: people that tried different type of scenarios and methods to get it as "real" as possible. Hopefully more people will follow and share their views and experiences on this.

And maybe we all find a thing or two that we can add to our own training.

Now of course there's a place for more "traditional" training, working drills etc but I don't think it should stay at that.

Your training with your wife seems good, we all know the old self-defense classes where women stand in line and in slow-mo make a groin kick and at the same time scream "no!" and if they rely on that sort of training, they're kidding themselves (something that isn't a good thing to do in such an important and serious matter)

How you handle things when you're out of breath is also a good thing, being tired, not being able to act as quickly, not as focused etc makes a difference.

I've done unarmed fullcontact sparring under pressure with pretty much everything goes scenarios (kicks, knees, elbows, headbutts, punches, grappling, even biting (lightly)) and it's really an eye-opener as it deals with pretty much all types of fear, adrenalinedump, pain etc.)

But it's difficult to set up such things with knives, there's no pain and no fear of pain since it doesn't get as physical.

Regards,
Chariot

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Bow to the Bowie!

[This message has been edited by Chariot (edited 01-29-2001).]
 
I'd also like to add:

if any of you reading this do full or semi contact sparring (boxing, muay thai or whatever) it's a good idea to continue even after you're tired since on the street there will be no coach saying "ok guys, take five!"

and to the "everything goes" full contact that I've done (and described a little above) we use fists (with gloves) standing and once on the ground no gloves and open hand strikes only.
 
I saw some stupid special on Discovery, A&E or The Learning Channel that was a replay of a "20/20" or "Dateline" type of show, you know the kind "Informational/News Program" that is more often than not, used to brainwash the masses...

It had some stories of Self-defense using firearms and then that inevitably turned to "Alternative Means," so to speak.

There was a woman who was being paid some really good money to hold "Self-defense Seminars" for Corporations, ostensibly for Female Corporate Executives, and it was a sick joke.

Like most "Corporate Seminars," they are geared towards Positivity and not necessarily results.

The same thing ensued, line the women up or let them sit at the table and scream NO!!!

It was absurd, and not only that, it then went into "Improvised Weapons" such as the staples in this game, car keys and umbrellas.

All of that is fine and good. For the money, they could have stayed at home that evening and yelled "NO!" at their husband when the husband refused to take the trash out, and they could have purchased copies of the infamous "Black Medicine" Series of books from Paladin Press. They basically would have received even more information from that series of books, and they would have probably been just as "prepared" to defend themselves on the street. Meaning, they would not have been prepared at all.

But you see, that is The Game in so many areas of life and especially in Corporate America. No, not everyone in "Corporate America" is helpless, in fact, there are a couple people that frequent this very Forum that are in "Corporate America." And they know they would be hard pressed indeed to sell a realistic Self-defense Seminar where they work.

It is much "nicer" and "cleaner" and more "tasteful" to sit and learn how to scream a word, one that is one of the first you ever learned as an infant. And to sit there and hear a lecture about how to do this while targeting the nose or eyes with a set of keys or an umbrella tip.

"Don't ruffle the suits please, our Executives would not be interested in participating in anything like that."

They could have increased the effectiveness of the seminar 1000% percent merely by having some focus gloves that allowed the people to at the very least, to make some contact.

That sad story gets replayed across this country every day and it is not limited to "Corporate America," that was just from the show...

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 01-29-2001).]
 
Hi,

I have tried to replicate the out-of-breath, shaky feeling you get from an adrenaline dump with weight training in my garage.

Try maxing out on a fairly high rep set of squats... rack the weight.... immediately slip on bag gloves and ATTACK the bag with all your body's weapons. I do this as a kind of sprint, hitting the bag all-out until I am spent.

I would do this with big exercises(squats, deadlifts, bench presses) which can really get you huffing.

1 set => hit the bag
recover
1 set => hit the bag
recover
1 set => hit the bag
recover
etc...

I liked the idea of feeling comfortable hitting something all-out when I was out-of-breath, pumped, and shaking. Plus a hell of a good workout!

~Kev
 
Kev,

I hear ya. Now try that fine motor skill it takes to fire a handgun or draw and open a folder...you can get used to it, but if you are not...it is fumble city.
biggrin.gif


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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
Hi Don,

Your right.... I should train this with my carry folder. But until the shooting range gets a squat rack... I'll have to pass on the shooting part. Ha!
wink.gif


Hmmm...I could drop into the brass and pump out some push-ups though???
smile.gif


Thanks!
~Kev
 
Just as an academic question...this kinda training would be, to a certain extent, another piece of evidence in favor of concealed fixed blade carry, wouldn't it? Less stuff to fumble when huffing and puffing and hyper-adrenalinized, yeah? Hmmmmm.

~bayani~
 
>>Bayani wrote:
>>Just as an academic question...this kinda >>training would be, to a certain extent, >>another piece of evidence in favor of >>concealed fixed blade carry, wouldn't it? >>Less stuff to fumble when huffing and >>puffing and hyper-adrenalinized

Definitely... But, I opt for a folder to stay legal. Your choice.

This same train of thought (wooo, wooo...) holds true in unarmed combat too... IMO. This is why I personally prefer the less intricate moves over the more complicated ones. As an example, I think that Muay Thai would be easier to pull off in a highly adrenalinized state than Wing Chun.

Ymmv...
Kev
smile.gif
 
of course. the less struggling the better, but then there's other things to consider when carrying a fixed blade. myself i carry a bowie. works for me :-)


------------------
Bow to the Bowie!
 
Bag training is also good for an adreniline dump.
biggrin.gif


-If your not familiar with this a bag/sack is hooked up to a rope and pulley and lowered over an individuals head.(the individual standing in a taped off box)
From their an 'aggressor' possisions themselves, the bag is removed and the fun begins. The object is not to get hit, while taking on the attacker and staying within the box. The bag is periodically raised and lowered to add to the intensity. Granted it's training but being completely isolated and then suddenly attacked will get the adrenalin pumpin'.

Rick

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You may think it's funny but wait till it's your turn.
 
I really like multiple assailant training to put the pressure on. Get 2-3 guys padded up and have them attack you together or in waves. Use empty hand, impact, edged and improvised weapons to get out of the situation. Make sure they have fairly heavy boxing gloves on as well so they can really give you some good shots. Make sure they have good head/eye protection because you are planning to rock their world.

Train in open areas, close quarters, in/around vehicles, get creative. You really discover how difficult it can be to deploy different weapons during a spontaneous attack. You also start to value your mobility over weapon choice.

My $0.02

Steve
 
Don,

About your "Corporate" training. You are right on the money. When I teach in a Corporate environment, I'm up to my neck in politically correct BS. The professionals that are really interested in personal safety, sign up for my politically incorrect personal safety training taught on their own time.

To most managers, Political Correctness is more important than employee safety. Part of me wishes them to be victimized one day to give them a different perspective.

Steve
 
Steve,

Yes, and sometimes when one encounters a really obstinate individual, one wishes they would be severely attacked to remove them from the gene pool.

Why? Because they might get other people killed right along with them.

Thankfully, most of them only write their own tickets to the local E.R.

A case in point would be, white shirts vs. dark blue shirts for concealment. One will highlight you on the darkest, raining night and the other one will offer you an incredible degree of concealment. I will settle for just "blurring" the silhouette.

In Baltimore City, Baltimore County and Anne Arundel County...there was some degree of stubbornness on the side of Police Administrators who wanted street officers on evening and mids to look like they do, i.e., "suits." You know, "We're Public Servants and we have to dress the role." Well, that is true to a degree, but this one was a no-brainer. The most stubborn of the three was Baltimore County and then they acquiesced and allowed them.

But you see, that had no bearing on reality whatsoever, it was stupid. A dark blue shirt can still be a uniform shirt with a "dress" shirt like appearance. And that is all it was, a bunch of Departmental Politicians enforcing their own beliefs on "Professional Appearance" even when that "appearance" might get someone more easily killed on the street.

People that have been on the street know that black clothing is not necessarily a "plus" in a hostile environment as it can actually silhouette you at times. Dark blue, on the other hand is incredible. It is an incredible form of Passive Defense in that the longer it takes for someone on the street or a dark building to visually "cue" in on you, the longer you have to move, react or just survive.

The same people would enter a building where they know there is a hostile and stand under exit signs, illuminating themselves and all sorts of other tactical blunders...they just have no concept of the street even if they came from it. Which is becoming more rare by the day, having an Administrator that came from the street. And there are some that are so mercenary in their career, they would simply reject it outright anyway.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
Luckily, our current chief has worked his way up through every rank in the dept. and has worked in almost every division.

We currently wear dark blue shirts and cargo pants. Now if we could only switch from Berettas to Glocks.
biggrin.gif


Steve
 
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