do you use your DMT's dry?

I do it both ways. When I am trying to remove a lot of material I use my hones on a stable counter up against a ridge that prevents any sliding. I use my right hand on the handle and my left hand on the blade to control my angle and even out pressure on the hone. I generally use all edge-forwards honing strokes. This I do dry since I figure water will only hold debris on the hone. I keep a terry cloth rag nearby and frequently wipe off any metal or diamond debris. While this approach is fast I figure that I get some scratches in the edge due to debris.

Next I take my hone to the kitchen sink and hold it under running water while I hone alternate sides of the blade at a steep 40 degree angle to remove any burr on the edge. I figure that the running water prevents any debris build up so I do a relatively clean job of deburring. Then I do a few more alternate side honing swipes under running water at my more normal 15 degrees per side. This is to get back the accute edge that I degraded with my 40 degree deburring step.

Now I switch to my 12" fine diamond hone (which is not DMT by the way). I use it dry on the counter with the same two-handed approach that I started with. This allows me to remove the rough surface finish left by my coarse hone. I wipe this hone off very frequently to reduce debris build up. After I have worked both sides I go back to the 40 degrees under running water to remove any burr. Then I go back to 15 degrees per side under water to get back my accute edge. Then I do a few alternating strokes lightly under the running water at 20 degrees per side to create a more durable finished edge.

I actually finish by using medium-fine ceramic rods at 20 degrees per side because I like the way they both shave and slice.
 
I always use 'em with water. It floats off the tiny metal filings and keeps the stones from loading up with crud.
If you were just gonna do a quick touch up, however, I don't think that using them dry would be a problem.
 
Ceramic rods are the only things I use dry.

Technically you’re supposed to let stones soak overnight before using. This however is tremendously inconvenient when in the field. That thin layer of mud that develops lubricates and smoothes the action.

I’ve heard, but never tried, that in the woods egg white is superior to water for lubricating a stone while sharpening.

I check all my gear before heading out. If I must touch up in the field I reach for a steel first and a ceramic rod second.
 
Originally posted by Nic Ramirez
Technically you’re supposed to let stones soak overnight before using.
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True for water stones.

But for all others, the advice varies as to wet/dry, water vs. oil ... but I hadn't seen a recommendation to soak, say, carborundum or Arkansas stones, and certainly not diamond "stones". Can't hurt carborundum or Arkansas I don't suppose (unless you leave them soaking in the garage and it freezes outdoors), but I'm unclear about what it would accomplish.


Jeff Clark,

Of the diamond stones you've used, e.g. DMT and EZ-Lap, etc, which do you prefer, how do they wear (longevity), etc...
 
I use all of the various diamond hones, and I never use water or oil. I believe that the DMT stones are really overpriced, and that the EzLap stones are a much better value. I still see no reason for all the holes in the background on the DMT stones. I have ExLap stones that I have used for many years, and they just seem to keep on working. I have DMT stones, used much less, that don't seem to work as well anymore. One of these days, I am going to rub the DMT stone against the EzLap stone, and see what happens. My bet is that the DMT stone will be worn smooth and ruined.
 
I use my DMT stones dry, cuts faster than wet that way. I've only had one Eze-lap product, and it lost its diamonds very quickly, compared with my DMT stones which cut well for years. I guess that gives me the opposite experience of Danbo.

Joe
 
I've always used my diamonds dry, by the way, and keep a wet paper towel around to wipe off the steel dust. I use water stones soaked, and wet. Makes an abrasive paste, by design.

My Lansky diamond stones wore down quicker than I thought they should... they still "work", but require a good bit more pressure and more time.

On my 2nd set of Lansky's, they are pretty worn down now also. (420V is kinda hard to sharpen on these).

I have a DMT 4"x10" Coarse & Fine on opposite sides, but it's new. It cut an A2 hand planer blade (Rc60) quite quickly.

I bought some DMT stones to use in their handheld jiggamabob in lieu of more Lansky's, but they are new. They do seem to cut better than the Lansky's, especially the fine and extra fine. Hence the question.

One sales pitch goes "monocrystalline diamonds are best, polycrystalline are a cheap compromise and ergo are mediocre".

EZE-Lap's sales pitch:
http://www.eze-lap.com/about.htm
EZE-LAP Diamond Products has been the pioneer and originator of diamond sharpeners since the early 1970's. Our patented diamond process and modern technology allows EZE-LAP to produce the finest quality diamond products for the lowest possible price. The patented process of heat treatment that bonds the highest quality industrial grade diamond particles in a stainless alloy to a precision matched metal substrate, has been imitated, but has never come close to being duplicated. The resulting surface integrity from the EZE-LAP process measures about 72 on the Rockwell C hardness scale. By utilizing our technology, EZE-LAP has created a surface that works on carbide, ceramic, tool steel, hardened materials and newer stainless steels that are utilized by most major knife manufacturers today.
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I asked EZ-Lap whether they used mono- or polycrystalline diamonds, got a very terse, concise answer back in Email...let's see if I can remember the guy's response... oh yeah:
from EZ-Lap customer service
we use both
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Ok, thanks a lot, pal, for helping me understand the benefits of your product line. No capitalization or punctuation. Glad he didn't spend too much time on his response. That made me wonder. Hence my question.

The sales pitch for DMT is that:
http://www.dmtsharp.com/products/

UNIQUE CONSTRUCTION

A perforated steel plate is injection-molded onto a highly engineered, glass reinforced polycarbonate resin base. Precision size micron diamonds are embedded in an electro-plated nickel matrix onto the perforated steel plate. The unique pattern of recessed plastic islands in a sea of elevated diamonds speeds sharpening by clearing away swarf.

Compared to standard sharpeners, DMT® Diamond Whetstones™ are:

Flat - will never hollow or groove. Easy to maintain constant angle during sharpening. Maintains original tool geometry.
Easy - light, controlled strokes quickly produce razor sharp edges. Sharpens, hones and laps much faster than conventional sharpening stones.
Durable - monocrystalline diamond, the single super-abrasive known for long-life, and tough component materials lasts longer than other diamonds and abrasives!
Clean - use only water for lubrication - no messy oils. Non-porous surface resists loading.
Safe - manual sharpening is temper safe steel and avoids heat build up, which can harm work piece.
Versatile - abrades any hard material: steel, tungsten carbide, titanium, ceramic, glass, etc.
Fast - unique tool pattern speeds sharpening.

Break-in period: Initially your diamond stone will seem especially rough. It will smooth over time with gentle stroking. You need not exert extra pressure - let the diamonds do the work!

Use only light pressure when sharpening. As a rule, 5-10 minutes on a conventional oilstone is equal to about 20 seconds on a DMT® Diamond Whetstone™.

Use only water as a lubricant. A lubricant is only necessary to speed the process of clearing swarf into the recessed dots.
After use, rinse and dry whetstone. Store dry. When further cleaning is needed, use an abrasive cleaner (non-petroleum base) and a scrub brush.
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The counter-pitch from this site, makes other claims, including that polycrystalline are harder/tougher, implying longer life:
http://www.metallographic.com/pc.htm

Polycrystalline diamond as compared to synthetic and natural monocrystalline diamond provides better surface finishes and higher removal rates for metallographic specimen preparation. The features and advantages of polycrystalline diamond include the following:

Higher cutting rates
Very uniform surface finish
More uniform particle size distribution
Higher removal rates (self sharpening abrasives)
Harder/tougher particles
Blocky shaped
Hexagonal microcrystallites (equally hard in all directions)
Extremely rough surface (more cutting points)
Surface area 300% greater than monocrystalline diamond
No abrasion-resistant directionality (abrasion independent of particle orientation)
Click to expand...

Other companies offer both, so are they less biased?
http://www.alliedhightech.com/polishing/diapolishing/
Allied's diamond compounds and suspensions are available with either polycrystalline or monocrystalline diamond.

POLYCRYSTALLINE DIAMOND has many more cutting surfaces per particle, resulting in higher removal rates. As it cuts, it breaks down in its original shape, allowing for finer finishes in less time than when using monocrystalline diamond. Because polycrystalline has no cleavage planes, it cannot crack or splinter like monocrystalline diamond. It causes less sub-deformation, and is excellent when polishing samples composed of different materials/hardness.

MONOCRYSTALLINE DIAMOND provides a cost effective means for good stock removal and finish. It has a slightly irregular shape with multiple cutting edges, and is recommended for general applications where polycrystalline's features are not required.
Click to expand...
http://www.psidragon.com/datasheets/diamond_suspensions.htm
The monocrystalline diamond is a product of high pressure, high temperature technology. The diamond particles are single crystal structures, very blocky and strong. This excellent shape and high particle strength results in an extremely closely graded powder. These color coded suspensions are recommended for polishing on metallic and many non-metallic materials.

The polycrystalline diamond is a shock synthesized product, producing a strong, multi-edged particle. The resulting particles are very strong, such that cleavage fractures will not occur. The polycrystalline diamond particles are black in color, resulting in shades of gray coloring of the suspension. This product is less frequently used, and is recommended for polishing non-metallic oxides and electronic components.
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So what matters? I dunno. But I'd guess the bonding to the substrate is what matters most, followed by how quickly the diamonds fracture and become more "level" with the substrate, reducing the bite of the stone. Anybody else (in addition to Joe) tried EZE-Lap side-by-side with DMT, over a long period of time?
 
FWIW, I've used E-Z Laps, and ended up giving them all away. They sucked, IMHO. They were heavy to carry around, too. All my present stones are DMT's, and they are dynamite!
I've heard a lot of similar stories to the previous post about Lansky diamond stones wearing quickly. I use a DMT, with a Lansky clamp. This combination is the best of all worlds. I then finish on a Lansky Fold-A-Vee, and my knives will not only shave hair, they'll shave those really fine little hairs on the back of my fingers.
 
Originally posted by Brommeland
E-Z Laps...sucked... They were heavy to carry around...
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Yeah, EZE-Laps are heavy. A flat steel slab, kinda thick. The DMT's have a stiff polycarb resin substrate, with a thin steel plate on top w/ diamonds attached to the plate w/ electroplated nickel. They are flat, stiff, light. Maybe a bigger issue for those toting to the field.
Originally posted by Brommeland
I use a DMT, with a Lansky clamp. This combination is the best of all worlds.
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Same here. The Lansky clamp is decent, aluminum doesn't scratch blades, but it's not perfect. The DMT clamp kinda sucks... plastic-y.
Originally posted by Brommeland
I then finish on a Lansky Fold-A-Vee...
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What is a Fold-A-Vee? Sounds like a V-crock stick, ceramic?
 
rdangerer,
Yeah, a Fold-a-Vee is a folding crock stick gizmo. It uses the grey (med grit) alumina rods, and folds up into itself. You can see one on my website(www.brommelandgunleather.com) in the Lansky section. (Don't think that this is a sales pitch - I haven't been able to get any of them for months). Thanks!
 
DMT sells you a hone that is mostly plastic with a diamond impregnated metal layer that is perforated (so that there is less metal and fewer diamonds on the surface). They sell this as superior technology. Maybe it's true, but in a lot of ways it's cheaper construction. Those heavy EZ-Lap hones are nice solid pieces of metal.

I have both. I don't like the perforations of the DMT. The perforations combined with the monocrystaline diamonds seem to make for a significantly rougher finish. They do hold their coarseness for a long time. The EZ-Laps seem to wear in and become significantly smoother with time. This is not necessarily a bad thing. They still cut pretty fast and they leave a smoother finish. My coarse hone is a DMT, all of my other household diamond hones are EZ-Laps.
 
Regarding wear, the DMT's are guaranteed not to wear out, the Ez-Laps are not. I have used both, the difference is obvious.

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Regarding wear, the DMT's are guaranteed not to wear out, the Ez-Laps are not. I have used both, the difference is obvious.
-Cliff
Click to expand...
Please elaborate, at least briefly.
 
Originally posted by Rick Leeson
I use WD-40 on my DMT stones. It makes a great cutting fluid.
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Cutting fluid... have always wondered what this accomplishes. Not that I doubt it. What are your (anyone) collective experiences here?

Grabs metal shavings/dust and floats away?
Grabs metal shavings and keeps from clogging up the stone?

It certainly makes a mess. "Is the mess worth it?" is the question.

I tend to just moisten a paper towel with water or spit and wipe the metal shavings away. Seems less messy.

I can understand how in machining how it can lower galling while not hindering the cutting action, and/or float shavings away/keep dust down, and/or help as a heat sink, pulling heat away from the cutting area.
 
I have two 8" DMT plates (x-coarse, fine), an x-coarse, fine and x-fine, diafold, fine tapered rod, and large 12" fine rod as well as six micron paste. I have also tried Ez-Lap plates, fine and medium.

The Ez-Lap ones came irregular, this is a common problem, clumping. It even notes it on the hones saying they have to be broken in on cheap knives. The DMT's come ready to finish sharpen.

The DMT's all readily outlasted the Ez-Lap's which quickly became near idential in grit. I still use all DMT's on a regular basis, they are all several years old.

I have also exchanged emails with DMT, customer service is high.

-Cliff
 
Again, I will say that I still own and use both brands. Yes, the EzeLap needs to be broken in a little first, while the DMT does not. I don't mind breaking them in a little. I have yet to wear out any of them; either brand.

My vote still sways towards the EzeLap for a couple reasons. One, I still am not crazy about the holes. Sometimes, your knife tip will get kinda caught in those holes. Plus, the metal backing on the DMT is not very hard, and if you drop or bang your DMT on something, it will burr the edge a little. Another thing to snag your knife tip or edge.

Two, and really the main reason I prefer the EzeLap. COST! You can get an EzeLap pocket hone for about $5 at Walmart, with bigger versions not a lot more. A 6" DMT version will cost you $30-40. Yes, the diamonds on the DMT are probably better, but are they worth more than 4 times the price?
 
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