Does it matter when sharpening..

dc50

dc50

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Does it matter when sharpening.. on a flat stone, whether you go edge first, or spine first? I've been doing edge first, all my life, but recently tried a few spine first, and it feels as though, I have more control of angle. Also I'm able to get my knife sharper than before. Just checking boyzz, before I bugger up :p
 
Yes it matters, edge trailing will cause excessive burring and build up of metal at the knife edge. Edge trailing is ok in stropping but not so much in sharpening.
 
If you know what you are doing, it doesn't matter. Any burrs must be removed anyway.
 
Hmmmmm I see your point about a burr build up.
Also see Bills statement, we need to remove the burr anyway.
one for one..good stuff! guys thanks. :)
 
tendency for a larger burr, but if you minimize the burr anyway, and do a final polish, don't matter
 
Stropping is not about removing burrs, it is about aligning the edge...at least on straight razors (and don't we all want our knives as sharp as straight razors). Due to the flexibility of the steel the apex of an extremely acute edge tends to have a bit of a "fin" on it. You can think of it looking a bit more like a capital Y than a capital V in cross-section. This is reasonably stable material, not the ratty material we call a burr. On a straight razor you try and remove the burr and be careful not to over-hone and get an excessive fin or a burr back. If you get really weak material on your edge (like a burr) it will come off when you strop and will get embedded in your strop. This leaves a slightly ragged edge and leaves bits of metal in your strop (bad). This is bad because a really acute edge will get dinged if you strop over bits of metal. This is uncomfortable when you shave (you do shave with your knife don't you?).

Anyway, back to your original question. We hone knives to somewhat higher (less acute) angles than straight razors. We see less fin and burr than you would see at a really low angle. Still if you hone edge-trailing (stropping on your hone) you will get a little more of both of those. This will leave you with an edge that feels sharper and can more easily shave, but is not as strong. We kind of want to end up with an edge that looks like a capital V in cross-section, not a capital Y. Honing edge-leading will reduce the tendency to burr and fin, but it will tend to slightly ding the edge as the edge runs into the grit of the hone edge-first. It is perfectly reasonable to end up your honing process with some edge-trailing strokes on a fine hone or a strop. This will help smooth out any lingering dings and get you a finer finish.

PS. The most effective way to remove a burr is by honing extremely lightly edge-forwards on a fine hone at a slightly elevated honing angle. Subsequently you can go back and do a slight bit of edge-forwards honing at your original low honing angle to remove traces of your deburring micro-bevel. If you simply strop you will pull off some of the burr and align the remnants of burr and fin to feel sharp, but without the durability of the other other method. If you strop enough to remove all burr and fin you can start to slightly round the edge. If you use a hard strop it will be less effective at burr removal, but will leave your edge more acute. A softer strop will catch more of the burr, but tend to wrap around the edge more. Always strop lightly and don't over strop if you want the finest edge.
 
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"Honing edge-leading will reduce the tendency to burr and fin, but it will tend to slightly ding the edge as the edge runs into the grit of the hone edge-first. It is perfectly reasonable to end up your honing process with some edge-trailing strokes on a fine hone or a strop. This will help smooth out any lingering dings and get you a finer finish".






Thanks Jeff! Thanks a lot for the explanation, good stuff :thumbup:
So this means, this ole boy will stick with the tried and true, way of sharpening.
 
Several videos that I've seen of traditionally trained Japanese knife sharpeners use a "back and forth" motion. :p

The Edge Pro and Eze-Sharp use a back and forth motion. :thumbup:

I get my knives "scary sharp" on the Edge-Pro using a back and forth motion. Burrs are easy to frind off with the stone if you don't allow them to get too big. (IOW, pay attention to what you're doing! :D )
 
Probably more important... If you're in the Northern Hemisphere to move counter-clockwise, and in the South Hemisphere to use a clockwise motion. Please remember too that when sharpening a larger blade, you need to take into account the Coriolis Effect. :p

Edge leading has always been the traditional, but spine first with give you exactly the same results. Both will create a burr although edge leading will remove burr at the same time until you get to the finest grits. In the end, either will work fine for general sharpening.

If you sharpen your knife every day you will wear down your knife. If you sharpen it once a month, or more realistically for the average pocket knife that might get one or two cuts a day, (if that much) sharpen 3-4 times a year and only 'steel' it or strop it every day, your knife should last a whole lot of years before your children (or even grandchildren) need to replace it. How often do you think a barber actually puts his razors to a stone? (And he might use them several times a day and needs a razor sharp edge to stay in business!) Sharpening is fun, but over-sharpening isn't needed, only wanted.

Stitchawl
 
Ben Dover said:
Several videos that I've seen of traditionally trained Japanese knife sharpeners use a "back and forth" motion. :p

The Edge Pro and Eze-Sharp use a back and forth motion. :thumbup:

I get my knives "scary sharp" on the Edge-Pro using a back and forth motion. Burrs are easy to frind off with the stone if you don't allow them to get too big. (IOW, pay attention to what you're doing! :D )
Click to expand...

In other words I can't watch TV when sharpening eh :p thanks Ben.
 
stitchawl said:
Probably more important... If you're in the Northern Hemisphere to move counter-clockwise, and in the South Hemisphere to use a clockwise motion. Please remember too that when sharpening a larger blade, you need to take into account the Coriolis Effect. :p


Stitchawl
Click to expand...

Crikey, I had to go back to my grade 10 science class to find out what the heck Coriolis Effect meant :D

The observed effect of the Coriolis force, especially the deflection of an object moving above the earth, rightward in the northern hemisphere and leftward in the southern hemisphere.
 
dc50 said:
In other words I can't watch TV when sharpening eh :p thanks Ben.
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:D It all depends on how serious you are about getting a really "insanely sharp" edge. :eek:

Personally, I won't even have a radio or music playing when I sharpen. 100 percent focus on the sharpening, at least for me, not only gets a better edge, but get's it much faster, with less mistakes! :p
 
dc50 said:
Crikey, I had to go back to my grade 10 science class to find out what the heck Coriolis Effect meant :D

The observed effect of the Coriolis force, especially the deflection of an object moving above the earth, rightward in the northern hemisphere and leftward in the southern hemisphere.
Click to expand...

... which is why I always orient myself and my sharpening motion perpendicular to the Equator, preferably with the spine of the blade pointing east. There is just no getting away from the Laws of Physics, no matter what quality your stropping compound! :D

(It doesn't hurt to plan your sharpening around local Tide Charts either.)

Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
... which is why I always orient myself and my sharpening motion perpendicular to the Equator, preferably with the spine of the blade pointing east. There is just no getting away from the Laws of Physics, no matter what quality your stropping compound! :D

(It doesn't hurt to plan your sharpening around local Tide Charts either.)

Stitchawl
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Doh
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d6954bbe44b0aa08f2efed9c7284ce9f.gif

Boy o boy Stich, between your howling at the moon, and my wife's got me on this new no fun GI diet..this ole buggers getting confoosed :D
 
dc50 said:
Doh
c010.gif
d6954bbe44b0aa08f2efed9c7284ce9f.gif

Boy o boy Stich, between your howling at the moon, and my wife's got me on this new no fun GI diet..this ole buggers getting confoosed :D
Click to expand...

I guess what it all boils down to, DC, is that there are soooo damn many ways to get a sharp edge, and they are all good and they are all 'correct.' :thumbup:

Edge first/spine first, free-hand, clamp device, stones, sandpaper, belt grinders, paper wheels, diamonds and rust (red jeweler's rouge is iron oxide.. rust!)
There isn't any 'only one way to do it right.' There is only 'the way to do it so it works for you.' And for that matter, how many times a day do you sharpen your EDC or the kitchen knife? :rolleyes:

I use my kitchen tools every day (about 30-50 cuts per meal) but only take a stone to them (EdgePro) at the most twice a year. The rest of the time they get steeled (using a smooth borocillicate glass rod) daily, and perhaps touched, just touched (3-4 strokes) to a SharpMaker fine rod about once a month.

My EDC gets used for perhaps 7-10 actual cuts per week, if that many. I strop it with a bare smooth leather strop once a week. I think I last use the EdgePro on it two years ago. It still shaves hair off my arm. If on one day I need to open a lot of cardboard boxes or cut some branches, etc., I'll run it over a CrO2 loaded strop before using the bare strop. If I plan on doing any gene splicing I will give it a better edge. :p

I have a couple of blades that I 'play' with for sharpening, trying various devices, stones, tapes, different grades of leather strops, different compounds, mounted strops and free-hanging strops, etc., etc., etc., but these blades never get used other than when tested for sharpness. :eek:

The bottom line is; if your getting the sharp edge that you want, you're doing it right. If you aren't, the chance are that;
A) you're using too much pressure (Usually 90% of the problem)
B) you're not maintaining a constant angle (The other 10%)
C) Both of the above.

Just bear in mind that for the 'perfect edge,' you need to bow down in the directions to both Damascus AND Sheffield... :cool:

Stitchawl
 
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One thing I've noticed is that edge leading will tend to wear down a stone faster the spine leading.
 
There are 5 million ways to get from my house to work, but there are probably only 20 that I would use on a work day. The other ways are just too long.

Some of the sharpening instructions are intended to come up with a minimum number of steps. Some of the directions are more comfort related. Some track to traditions. Some are intended to be economical in some way. But in the end there are 5 million ways to sharpen a knife, but I only use about 100 of them.
 
Jeff Clark said:
There are 5 million ways to get from my house to work, but there are probably only 20 that I would use on a work day. The other ways are just too long.

Some of the sharpening instructions are intended to come up with a minimum number of steps. Some of the directions are more comfort related. Some track to traditions. Some are intended to be economical in some way. But in the end there are 5 million ways to sharpen a knife, but I only use about 100 of them.
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You guys are just good ole boys :D and thats good.
I remember when I was a boy helping my uncle on the farm, castrating hogs.
He had a round stone, hockey puck size sharpenig the knife in a quick circular motion. I know it would make some cringe,with this style of honing, but man, it would be like a razor.
 
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