Does Maxamet require diamonds like s90/110v?

[MyLegsAreOk]

^Topic
Getting my first maxamet steel knife and wondering if I can just use the sharpmaker ceramics (because they're easy). I have coarse to extra extra fine DMTs but the edge doesn't come out as picture perfect.

Secondly, is Maxamet stronger than M4? I'm not talking edge retention I'm talking sheer strength of the metal as in how many pounds per square inch can a plate of it take before snapping in half.

 

[DeadboxHero]

No, you can touch up with ceramic, reprofile and repair with diamonds or CBN though.

Yes, Maxamet is stronger then M4. 67hrc vs 62hrc on M4 plus more carbide volume, more wear resistance. The edge will hold it's shape longer on downward cutting longer and resisting deformation.


Not sure what you mean by sheer strength, I'm hoping your not translating that to "prying"
Lateral strength takes a hit with Maxamet. These are not swords M4 is no "sword foil" either. I wouldn't try to repeat any 5160 spring steel ABS mastersmith bend testing with either man.
No torquing the edge or prying the blade, I'm not saying you haveto baby it and you shouldn't do those types of things with any blade but Maxamet will keep you honest.

Nothing I've seen in my life cuts as long as Maxamet in the real world. While there are higher Vanadium rich steels with more volume and harder Carbides, they just don't have the incredible precipitated hardeness that Maxamet offers with that huge tungsten volume, which seems to be the big difference in performance.
Your not going to see a lot of this steel either it's very niche, not for everyone. It's an extreme which means extreme trade offs
Not applicable to all knife designs or uses either.

 

[Mo2]

You will want diamonds or cbn to make it faster. And also to cut the vanadium in the steel matrix. However ceramic will make it sharp as it's able to sharpen the steel that the carbides reside in.

You may see lots of loading. So be cautious and clean the ceramic often when it loads.

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

Indeed, this is why I use the DMTs with my higher vanadium carbides like s90v and s110v. I am worried that like them (high-v carbs) the maxamet will drop its vanadium or perhaps tungsten because the steel will get worn away around it and it will fall out, or even worse cut the ceramics because they are silicate.

Yes, Maxamet is stronger then M4. 67hrc vs 62hrc on M4 plus more carbide volume, more wear resistance. The edge will hold it's shape longer on downward cutting longer and resisting deformation.


Not sure what you mean by sheer strength, I'm hoping your not translating that to "prying"

Not really. The BHQ Spyderco C101 Manix came with M4 and spyderco lauded it as their "strongest production folder". I did not know if this was true because I have heard maxamet being pretty out there when it comes to retention. I also am curious because I nick metal pieces at work a lot and was wondered if I could bring in m4 or this new maxamet so I don't have to resharpen my s110v para 2 every few days because of chips.

 

[115Italian]

M4 is a tougher steel. Maxamet should be a harder steel, obviously heat treated properly. Both would reprofile better with diamond stones.
Remember that steel toughness and hardness are two different things.

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

Indeed.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I don't think Maxamet is the solution to what you described. M4 won't chip as much as Maxamet but M4 doesn't cut as long.

That doesn't make M4 "Excalibur"
Haha but it's less likely to chip and Sharpens faster then Maxamet and s110v when damaged.
Whats fun about Maxamet though is that it holds a very aggressive working edge despite the damage also if your a Sharpener it takes a crazy keen edge and It's good stuff in the right hands, very unique, nothing like it.

The real solution is to stop damaging the edge, use the knife with more precision and dexterity to avoid hard materials that damage the thin edge.

Otherwise just beef that edge up to 20-25 per side and keep the edge toothy and burr free.

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

Well it came in today so I think I will keep the s110v PM2 on me for most tasks but the Max Manix for cardboard stints only if what you say it true. I watched your video and you scraped up aluminum and PVC so the Maxamet edge seemed extremely durable. Now I have to go to the Spyderco forum and see if there's a way to lighten the ball lock tension without snipping the spring. Ideally I would like it so it's as easy as the Benchmade axis-lock to manipulate.

Oh also, I'm protecting it with Meguiars California Gold Car wax as I know it is not stainless and unlike my BM Contego in M4 does not have protective coating.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Well it came in today so I think I will keep the s110v PM2 on me for most tasks but the Max Manix for cardboard stints only if what you say it true. I watched your video and you scraped up aluminum and PVC so the Maxamet edge seemed extremely durable. Now I have to go to the Spyderco forum and see if there's a way to lighten the ball lock tension without snipping the spring. Ideally I would like it so it's as easy as the Benchmade axis-lock to manipulate.

Oh also, I'm protecting it with Meguiars California Gold Car wax as I know it is not stainless and unlike my BM Contego in M4 does not have protective coating.

I don't find the corrison an issue, spyderco puts that excellent stonewash it's very smooth. That helps alot with corrison resistance not having deep belt scratches on the blade for pockets of rust to hide and grow.


Maxamet microchips with lateral force on cutting and contacting with impact metal, what facinating is it won't blunt and stop cutting but it will lose the hair shaving edge with damage.


Maxamet is the strongest steel I've ever used if the edge used straight on to whatever materials your cutting it can handle PVC without issues but if your cutting a ton of pvc and torquing the edge it will start to reduce the sharpeness. Aluminum, I cut with no damage, it did reduce the treetoping sharpeness but it would still pop hairs and cut paper clean.

Once you torque and smack the edge on steel you'll have problems, it will still cut after damage like I said, it's rather "blunt proof" but the cutting quality will go down and the sharpness too yet still has "tooth" to the edge. M4 doesn't do that and will blunt overtime.

M4 is tougher, will resist damage by blunting and rolling more and will crisp up faster on stones and strops but dang. Higher top speed on the Maxamet and it also takes a crazy keen edge in the right hands with all that great hardeness.

No, put the s110v away for now and USE the Maxamet and enjoy it. Find the limits of the steel yourself. Only use my videos and statements as a reference or guideline, not the ten commandments.

Have fun.

 

[jpm2]

The only damage I've done to maxamet is opening a can of beans at 30 degrees inclusive. This involved a lot of side force on the edge. After increasing the angle, I did the same thing and there was zero damage.

My brief experience with s110v was a couple years ago and it failed miserably at pretty much any angle.
Maybe I just didn't get it sharpened down to stable steel, or maybe it's better now, but if it's still the same now as then, maxamet is a much better choice for rougher use.

Like DBH said, maxamet is in a class by itself with high hardness and tungsten content. Anyone who is interested in a moderate use, cut almost forever folding knife, better get it before it disappears.

All that said, M4 is my top choice for rough use. It resists damage better than most at the lower angles. It does gradually dull cutting bean cans open, but one of just a few steels I can get through any task without having to stop and sharpen or fix damage.

Oh yeah, I recommend to at least finish with diamonds for pretty much any steel. I feel diamond cuts the best, with the least amount of pressure, which I find gives the strongest most stable and longest lasting edge.

 

[Wowbagger]

I didn't think I had anything to contribute to this thread other than what many others would say : "Yes diamonds are the way to go for Maxamet". Not that I have any yet and know anything about it but spec wise ooooh lala right !

As far as M4 I have a fair amount of experience with it; daily use at work for months and months each EDC change. Obviously great stuff. So far I have never had a collision as you describe that I know of; part luck and part attention on my part because I like and respect the knives so much that have my M4.

However there was that ONE very recent experience that is questionable. I looked at the blade and it had a flat area about a half inch long near the tip. This just never happens to me with M4.
How ? ? ? ?
I had just cut open a large bubble wrap type envelope to get a long, really nice, German made screw driver out that had been shipped to me. There is a small chance I collided with the tip of that screw driver with my Para2M4. By the time I discovered the edge damage the screw driver was at work. Finally after days of use I found time to look at the tip of the hardened, toughened, majorly really good screw driver tip.
Ha, ha I figured if it had gone toe to toe with Mr. M4 it would have, as they say "ouch, thats going to leave a mark". There was a mark but it was an abrasion down one side near the tip; a scuff. Not a ding so I still don't know if that was what got my blade.

As far as the S110V; yah not what you want for what you want to do with it and . . . don't sharpen it with anything but diamond period in my view, not even touch up.

Which brings us, if there is anyone actually here reading this . . . besides me . . . hello . . . ? ? . . . oh well, I'm an only child (used to being alone and entertaining myself) . . . probably if I had grown up in England I would have been a double 00.
Ok back to reality

3V ! ! !
That's what you want !
or
XHP ! ! !
I have run into stuff with the 3V and I regularly carve mild steel or slightly case hardened steel with the XHP
Since I like posting photos and thumbing my nose at PhotoPlunket the first knife is 3V a thinned Pendleton Hunter and the second needs no introduction; XHP with a little mod.

Oh and that old Maxamet . . . send that to me, I'll give it a nice comfy home. I won't use it much since I got my Para2M4 but I promise to take it out occasionally . . . maybe down to the ice cream shop.
It'll have a good home.

 

[MyLegsAreOk]

My brief experience with s110v was a couple years ago and it failed miserably at pretty much any angle.
Maybe I just didn't get it sharpened down to stable steel, or maybe it's better now, but if it's still the same now as then, maxamet is a much better choice for rougher use.

Not that it adds to the discussion but I would like to bring up a point about this. I had to shave about .032 inches (that's how much I lost from according a micrometer) away through diamond sharpening freehand until the steel started to show good performance, and now it stays very sharp much longer than anything prior. It however does not stay razor/shaving sharp, but before I look that much steel off it performed on par with 154CM when we're talking edge retention. It wasn't even as good as any of my s30v Spydercos or BMs.

 

[Wowbagger]

I had to shave about .032 inches (that's how much I lost from according a micrometer)

My first one (S110V) the edge came unusable from the factory, unless you are cutting chocolate cake, it was rolled, wouldn't hang on the flat of my finger nail . . . just a joke.

I sharpened it at least seven times each time with the edge pro or by hand with diamond plates then a combination of both. I have no idea how much blade width I took off but I was getting some major burs most any time I sharpened it because I was aware of this theory of better metal up there in the blade some where.

I went for polished, I went for toothy . . . back and forth from sharpening to sharpening. Each time it was shave sharp for toothy and whittling when polished. With in a day at work the edge was sick and not carving decently. Gave up and traded it.

I got two more S110v blades and they are both MUCH better and stay pretty much shave sharp for the same tasks. All from the same maker. I have spent hardly any time sharpening either one. Just enough to get it cutting again. Other than the major reprofile on the one but that was only thinning behind the edge. I left the edge sharp the whole time. Only diamonds and only on the Edge Pro except the reprofile; that was by hand on a huge diamond plate. Never stropping. Not as good for me as the M4 though.

 

[Wowbagger]

Now I have to go to the Spyderco forum and see if there's a way to lighten the ball lock tension without snipping the spring. Ideally I would like it so it's as easy as the Benchmade axis-lock to manipulate.

Oh yah I was going to respond to that as well. My first dud S110V was a Manix so I KNOW what you are talking about. The general consensus here at the time was that I was a wimp not worth talking to until I spent some time in the gym. I already had spent quite a bit of time in the gym and am a mechanic who uses his hand strength and general dexterity to make my living . . . so . . .

yah the best way I found to get a satisfying lock experience with a similar slide lock was :
1. Benchmade Griptillian
and
2. Benchmade 940-1 . . . again

Manix lock effort ? why ? ? ?

 

[jpm2]

I had to shave about .032 inches (that's how much I lost from according a micrometer) away through diamond sharpening freehand until the steel started to show good performance, and now it stays very sharp much longer than anything prior.

That's about how much I had to reduce an S30V edge before it quit crumbling away.