Does this look like celluloid to you?

r8shell

r8shell

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Jan 16, 2010
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I've picked up a number of old knives at flea markets and gun shows over this past year, and have finally had a little extra time around the holidays to look them over and fix them up. (last weekend it was my Boker Barlow that I reground the blades on to make it usable)

Now I'm looking at this little Imperial. Judging by the tang stamp, I'm thinking it's from 1936 to 1952, but I could be wrong. Does anyone think the covers might be celluloid? They look and feel like plastic, but I don't really know what celluloid feels like. I have read about the dangers of outgassing, and am a bit concerned.
It's a cute little guy, and I might want to put it in the rotation, but do I need to quarantine it?

Here are a few pictures:

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Yep, celluloid alright, no doubt about it. If you want to clean it up, you can use the micron sandpapers on it and it will not damage the covers.
 
Thanks.
It does seem to be in good shape, but now I'm paranoid it will explode with caustic gasses. :D

I'm not familiar with micron sandpapers. What grit would that be?
 
They come in packages of 6 different color coded grits. 1-30 grit, these are made by 3M and are aluminum oxide/silicon carbide based. You can use them wet or dry.
I have used them for years. I use them for removing fine scratches mainly on bolsters and handles of knives. This is what I used to polish most of the Imperial knives I have on those cards I showed in this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Got-Any-Interesting-Older-Celluloid-EOs/page3
 
singin50 said:
They come in packages of 6 different color coded grits. 1-30 grit, these are made by 3M and are aluminum oxide/silicon carbide based. You can use them wet or dry.
I have used them for years. I use them for removing fine scratches mainly on bolsters and handles of knives. This is what I used to polish most of the Imperial knives I have on those cards I showed in this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Got-Any-Interesting-Older-Celluloid-EOs/page3
Click to expand...

Wow. What a collection!
When did they stop using celluloid? I also have a tiny little souvenir knife that's a bit newer (1956 to 1988)
I don't have a photo of it yet, but when I do, I may post it in that thread.
 
Thank you, most companies stopped using celluloid back in the 1960s but some companies may still use old stock that was found for new knives from time to time. It's a gamble at best though. Yes the advertisers are pretty common. Would like to see it though.
 
Celluloid is also called Pyrolene. Pyro. Yes, it will burn and is difficult to exinguish. But it has likely already done most of it's outgassing (which is more corrosive than flammable). Back then, cell was properly made and well cured before being used. Later makers began rushing it and that is where you see the shrinkage mostly. I don't see many with that tang stamp and shield shape. Very nice find.
 
Yes, you really get to see the damage or outgassing on the Fight'n Roosters that were made with celluloid.
 
singin50 said:
Yes, you really get to see the damage or outgassing on the Fight'n Roosters that were made with celluloid.
Click to expand...

What a shame, too. I had a couple FR rehandled, but was not happy with the workmanship and should have left them alone.

Ed J
 
I have a small collection of Dunlap branded Camillus knives (S.R. & Co.) from circa 1938-39 and they have unique "stag" molded celluloid covers. They are the worst I have seen for shrinkage and corrosion. I wasn't sure what the material was when I picked them up years ago so I tried a quick "flame test" on one relic with a broken scale. Woosh! Don't do that! :eek: I barely got it extinguished. I can certainly see why the industry got away from that materal as soon as other plastics became available, though none can truely match the color and depth of nice cell. I have been told by old timers that the sheets of cell were stored in special outbuildings with roofs designed to blow up, not out in case the materials ignited.

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Case offered a celluloid in the late 90s(I think) I keep my little suicide bomber in a Kraft cheese jar with a sealing lid. I'd suggest keeping all of your celluloid handled knives separate from the rest to reduce the chance of them decomposing and taking out the rest of your knives. I contacted Case directly and asked them if they really did use celluloid and they did confirm it was the real deal. I brought up my concern with them about the down sides of celluloid and basically got dead air response from them. On the plus side they have not reintroduced any additional celluloid handled knives.
 
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I think the best way to keep from losing others to outgassing is to leave them out in the open, away from other knives. Like on an open shelf or counter.
 
I would think that sealing them in a confined space like a jar or small box would be the surest way to cause them to self-destruct if there was any outgassing at all. I prefer to let them "breathe" but don't store them with my non-cell knives. To each his own though.
 
Codger, my point exactly. It's almost a guarantee that it will outgas in a jar, as you said if there were any signs to start with.
 
Out of the 6-7 years I've been using this stuff no problems. Its the real thing
the stuff burns like gunpowder. Thats not to say it won't one day take off and
god knows what. Ken.
 
Those are beautiful knives KC.

I have a couple of old Imperial jacks (circa 1930s) in Christmas tree celluloid and except for a little shrinkage, they're fine. I've had other celluloid handled knives that outgassed within a couple of years. There are so many variables when it comes to celluloid. As Perry and Michael pointed out above, it's better to be safe than sorry... i.e. don't store with other knives and don't enclose them in boxes, jars, baggies etc. At least that's been my lesson learned the hard way.
 
I totally understand what you're saying Ken. They sure are beautiful handles though. Has the material you've been using been stabilized in some manner?
 
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