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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Does this look like the real deal?
- Thread starter DannyinJapan
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you may want to post that over on the keris forum of the ethnographic arms and armour forum, it looks real, but probably a bit new. (there are a few on ebay in the netherlands and from indonesia.) the brass looks a bit corroded, while the blade is not, needs the brasswork cleaned and the steel oiled with keris oil (japanese sword oil would do in a pinch) there are a few keris on ebay at the moment, very specialised market. also have a look over on the valiant site at their antique keris section
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Yup, but wait until Bill Marsh chimes in as he is the HI Keris expert. Looks like it needs a good cleaning all the way around though.
Bear with me on the question but in short, what is it? And a Keri? I'm asking because I am in receipt of two blades my father in law had which he apparently picked up during the war (41st Div, Australia to Japan). One is similar looking in the handle, scabbard/sheath (wood carved) and brasswork. I need to post them to see what I am looking at.
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the keris (also spelled kris, creese, etc.) is an Indonesian/Malaysian/Philippine form of knife/sword frequently containing a number of curves in a sine wave form, always an odd number. the indonesian/malay versions usually are slender thrusting weapons rather than hackers/slicers, while the more sword like Filipino (moro) versions are slicers that could (and did) cut people in half. most are actually straight and un-waved like the one shown on the Japanese site. the unsymmetrical flare at the grip end of the blade is in the form of a guard to protect the users hand. the longer side is 'up' and the pistol grip twisted so that you can grip the blade between thumb and forefinger, there is normally a depression in the blades 'flair' for this.
the fancy versions are pattern welded, the malay/indonesian ones usually containing layers of high nickel metal. they are then 'washed' in lime juice (acid) and then limejuice and a natural arsenic compound to bring out the pamor, the patterns revealed by the layered steel/nickel which are deliberate and quite striking. the Filipino ones are generally pattern welded in the viking form, a twisted core of hard/softer steel with harder edges welded on, all kept bright white for combat.
the scabbards of the malay/indo ones are made of fancy grained woods, sometimes carves or covered on a decorative brass/gold/silver cover, but usually arranged to show off the fancy wood grain. the grips are usually decorative in their own right, being carved wood ivory, or precious metals, and can have jewelled sections. the owners usually decorate their keris according to how rich they are at the moment, and may sell the keris's 'clothes' to raise money, or buy new clothes for it when they are flush.
thus an old blade may be found with new clothes, or a new blade with old clothes, the grip parts are not glued or pinned on, being held by a friction fit or by wrapping in braided hair or cloth (mine is held by a piece of silk batik wrapped and then pressed into the grip) they are an artform with their own specialist language, a bit like nihonto.
my Maduran Keris Untu Walang, dapur: tilam upih, pamor: untu walang,
scabbard: teak, ladrang madura style, loa 24", wht. 430 grams
the malay keris is a magical blade, and may have a spirit living in it, most are good and protect their owners, some are malevolent and dangerous. most keris are washed ceremonially every year and oiled in fragrant flowered oils to appease the spirit within.
the Filipino moro keris, generally referred to as a kris to differentiate it, (all western spellings, the locals would not differentiate) being a hacking, weapon, generally has a more robust grip and usually has brass or other metal bands/straps to keep the blade attached to the grip during heavy swings and impacts. the more delicate keris is/was used in a thrusting manner and does not need a strong tang. the active link in my post above is a good reference, a bit technical tho. another good non-commercial reference
is the ethnographic weapons research site
some indian/nepali, and even western swords may be found 'waved' (the flamberge two handed swords were popular amongst the late middle ages) HI occasionally offer a wavey blade as a 'special'
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Agreed Kronckew with the caveat that most Indonesian keris primary function is, and was, as a talisman or spiritual device, not a weapon. Though it was usually carried in battle by the Javanese and Balinese, it was not used as a weapon except as a last resort. The tang small and round. Designed for easy removal of the handle so the blade can be submerged for cleaning and staining. This makes for a relatively ineffectual weapon, though it would be effective for one stab.
The Moro kris was both a weapon and a talisman. And, as you said, much more robust. The tang is rectangular, like a khukri, in cross-section and anchored securely to the hilt, with a resin similar to the lada used in Nepal.
It is thought that the Moro kris evolved from the Indonesian keris. My first picture shows an archaic Moro kris from the mid 16th or early 17th century. The side plates are not usual, but are a vintage restoration.
Moro kris come in either waved or straight configuration. It was thought that the straight blades were better for slashing.
The second example is also an archaic Moro kris. Not quite as old. More likely 17th century. Note the half waved blade. Some people conjecture that the blade indicates a Naga or mythical serpent. the straight blade is a Naga asleep or in meditation, the hald-waved blade, a Naga in transition and a fully waved blade as fully awake.
Kris and keris are considered masculine and therefore do have an odd number of waves or "luks."
The third example is a high end battle blade. Well made, but simple.
The fourth example is the one in my avatar with a larger ivory pommel. This one likely belonged to a chieftan -- Datu or Panglima -- noble or perhaps just a wealthy man.
The Moro kris was both a weapon and a talisman. And, as you said, much more robust. The tang is rectangular, like a khukri, in cross-section and anchored securely to the hilt, with a resin similar to the lada used in Nepal.
It is thought that the Moro kris evolved from the Indonesian keris. My first picture shows an archaic Moro kris from the mid 16th or early 17th century. The side plates are not usual, but are a vintage restoration.
Moro kris come in either waved or straight configuration. It was thought that the straight blades were better for slashing.
The second example is also an archaic Moro kris. Not quite as old. More likely 17th century. Note the half waved blade. Some people conjecture that the blade indicates a Naga or mythical serpent. the straight blade is a Naga asleep or in meditation, the hald-waved blade, a Naga in transition and a fully waved blade as fully awake.
Kris and keris are considered masculine and therefore do have an odd number of waves or "luks."
The third example is a high end battle blade. Well made, but simple.
The fourth example is the one in my avatar with a larger ivory pommel. This one likely belonged to a chieftan -- Datu or Panglima -- noble or perhaps just a wealthy man.
