Dog pulling on his leash

C

c00per

Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
391
Hello everybody,
My dog (Belgian Malinois - 5 years old) wont walk nicely on his leash. I've tried a harness that clips on the front, and I've been using a gentle leader for several months now to no avail. I took him on a 5 mile walk yesterday and he pulled nearly the whole way - the gentle leader has started to rub his skin now, causing irritation. What should I do?

Some trainers suggested that every time he tugs to turn around and walk the other way, but the poor guy just ends up getting confused and we literally just walk round and round in circles on the spot. It's not something that seems at all practical...

I'm considering using a prong collar. Is there any reason I shouldn't try one? Is it the sort of thing where he will learn so eventually I can put him on a regular collar? Are there any other options?

They look like some kind of awful tourture device :D

Thanks, Matt
 
This is easy, all you need is a skateboard. How come you did not think of it......?:D To be dog friendly, make sure the bearings are clean, so as not to produce too much drag. It will keep PETA off your back....:cool:
 
I'm going to apologize in advance for my tone....

1. You are about 4&3/4 yrs too late to teach your dog how to walk properly on a leash. This work needed to be done properly when he was a pup. Good news, it's not too late... just WAY harder. Dog has trained you these past 4+ years. Time for you to reassert yourself.

2. Stick with the halti-collar. Read the directions on how to use it properly.

3. Enroll yourself and your dog back into obedience classes. Practice EVERY day, not just in class. Utilize positive reinforcement techniques.

4. PRONG COLLARS DO NOT WORK. They are a sign of failure and laziness on the owner's part in my opinion. NO. Prong. collar.

5. You have a Belgian Malinois... one of the most intelligent breeds out there. Time to learn how to outsmart your dog. Again, go to classes. Complete one level, and go to the next highest. Complete that, move up. You have a "WORKING BREED" These dogs love to work. They do not know how to train themselves. You need to guide them. My money is on the dog... he's had a 5 year head-start.;)

6. Neuter him if he already isn't. Yes, it's important. No, he won't miss them.

Good luck with him. PM me if you want.
 
Matt, are you sure you adjusted the Gentle Leader correctly? I use one and it took me a couple tries to get it right. My dog, which used to pull, now floats next to me and never pulls. If I remember, there are instructions or a video on their site. Good luck
 
Bushcraftbraintruse - yeah his gentle leader is set up fine, it was wrong for the first week but the trainer we had at the time set us right, thanks :).

Mongo said:
I'm going to apologize in advance for my tone....

1. You are about 4&3/4 yrs too late to teach your dog how to walk properly on a leash. This work needed to be done properly when he was a pup. Good news, it's not too late... just WAY harder. Dog has trained you these past 4+ years. Time for you to reassert yourself.

2. Stick with the halti-collar. Read the directions on how to use it properly.

3. Enroll yourself and your dog back into obedience classes. Practice EVERY day, not just in class. Utilize positive reinforcement techniques.

4. PRONG COLLARS DO NOT WORK. They are a sign of failure and laziness on the owner's part in my opinion. NO. Prong. collar.

5. You have a Belgian Malinois... one of the most intelligent breeds out there. Time to learn how to outsmart your dog. Again, go to classes. Complete one level, and go to the next highest. Complete that, move up. You have a "WORKING BREED" These dogs love to work. They do not know how to train themselves. You need to guide them. My money is on the dog... he's had a 5 year head-start.;)

6. Neuter him if he already isn't. Yes, it's important. No, he won't miss them.

Good luck with him. PM me if you want.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize Mongo, I should have mentioned some of his background - he is a rescue. Me and my girlfriend got him several months ago from the SPCA, he has been tied up in somebodies yard for the past 5 years so he has had a poor life until recently. We have taken him to a run of about 8 obedience classes (Obedience 101, I think) and have had several private classes before obedience 101 (the SPCA gave us some special training because of his past - he is a bit of a handful, nervous of other people and dogs) and are planning on getting more when Kate's job picks up a little. I understand all about the breed, hence all of the training - we are doing everything we can for the guy, we spend more on his food then our own (not counting the few times a month we (me and Kate, not the dog:)) go out someplace cheap to eat). We just have had so much other training to catch up on before we really thought about training him to stop pulling on his leash - they only gave us a quick brief on how to do it with private lessons, and it wasn't covered at obedience 101.

He's getting very obedient with his other training (every day he gets better) but the training for walking him on his leash is daunting to say the least. I will try but we wont end up going anywhere, it's a little frustrating because he picks everything else up so quickly! I'd just heard prong collars mentioned before and thought it might be an OK option - I guess it isn't, easy way outs never seem to be :).

Any tips for helping me with his training for walking him by my side? How would you do it?
 
Prong collars are very specialized tools for trainers who know what they are doing.

Try just quick jerks on the regular collar with a short lead, they don't have to be hard, just enough to be annoying so it is more comfortable for him to heel than lead. Never let him lead, and be prepared to do a lot of stopping and starting, and restarting from the sit position. Also, check with your instructor so it does not conflict with what you are doing, and also to make sure what I am telling you is clear and correct.
 
My way to train a dog to not pull is the same way I train them to walk at heel. It takes plenty of patience at first. The overall message to the dog is - 'We aren't going to get where you want to go until you stop pulling and walk at heel.
As soon as the dog pulls (or walks in front of me) I stop walking and say 'heel'. As soon as they walk behind me (which is kind of a random event at first) I say 'Good Dog' and start walking. As soon as they strain at the leash or walk in front of me I stop again etc.

After about a dozen walks they get the message well. I think walking together, covering distance, is something that man and dogshave been doing since we started hunting together so it's a natural way to bond.

I've even taught friends dogs using this method and they've walked at heel ever since.
 
My mom is a dog trainer and encourages people who come to her to get a choker collar. Now, some people will disagree with me on this. I have walked every dog I've ever owned on a choker and if used right will not hurt the dog. It is never, ever supposed to hurt the dog and if it does it is the sole responsibility of the handler.
The trick with the choker collar is to make sure that the collar just barely goes over the dogs head when you put on. Then, you want to make sure to keep the collar up high on the dogs neck just behind his/her ears. Before you start walking, put the dog in a sit then start walking. If he pulls, "pop" the collar. (a very short, sudden tightening of the collar). If that doesn't get his attention, stop, put him in a sit...make sure he sits right beside you. Then try again. Keep doing that over and over until he gets the message.
Also, if you have a breed of dog that is a working dog, it might help to get him a backpack. I know that sounds a little crazy, but they make backpacks for dogs. I use one for my border collie. Put a bottle of water in each side pocket...that gets them in a "working" mode. They have a task, something to do. It also burns a little excess energy which it sounds like he needs.
Lastly, remember that dogs want to be treated like dogs. They don't want to be treated like humans and don't have the same feelings you do. Yes, you want him to feel safe, but he also needs to be part of the "pack" and you are the leader of that pack, not him. Don't be mean, be assertive. And practice every day. If all of that doesn't work then I'd suggest you go ahead and get him and yourself back into obedience classes.
FYI-I also suggest either watching or reading anything by Caesar Milan, aka The Dog Whisperer. Most of what I've just said comes from him.
Gray
 
Everyone else already said what I would have, (except Bumppo's opinion of prong collars...) I'm glad you told me he was a rescue, you do sound like you know what you are in for. Shame on the idiots who ignored him for the first part of his life.:mad: It will take time, but he will come around. It used to take me about 20-30 minutes to walk my oldest dog about 1/2 block and back when I first started training her. Very frustrating, but worth it now. She still needs a periodic refresher.

GraysonK describes the same methods I recommend. I've never tried the backpack thing though... I like that! A similar concept is the "working collar". My brother had a dog that became all business and well behaved when she had her special "training/hunting" collar on. Was a bit more idiotic when it wasn't on.

A lot of dog training is instinctive. You are the human, they are the dog... yet you need to act like the Alpha dog in the ways you interact with your dog. Very hard to explain for me... sorry.
 
Congrats on your new pooch... and good for you on rescuing him from his past 5 years of neglect.

Just know that this will take time, effort, and consistency on your part.
The 3 musts... discipline, excersize, and affection. And the biggest part is you'll NEED to be the alpha or leader of the pack... start with establishing that. Correct him when he does something you don't like and praise him when he gets it right. Nothing harsh... use verbal & hand commands (be consistant) along with firm nudges with you hands, legs and feet. Hand nudges (kind of like light, triple jabs) around the neck (on the side by the jugular) are most effective in correction, and legs & feet to move him into position, like when going thru a door first or walking on a leash. Even subtle things like you going thru doors first and eating first, establish you as the alpha. And yes, you both can be the alpha, so you both should do these activities... and be consistent between you. All of this is not just during the training sessions... this is every minute you are around him.

He'll do a lot better in training if he's gotten rid of some of the energy and had some excersize first. So if you can play fetch or run him around in the back yard for 15 to 20 mins, it would be better. I usually leash them up and run or bike it out of them for a bit before I start any training. But since you're having trouble on the leash, find some other way to wear him out a bit first. And the weighted pack is a GREAT way to help any dog burn off extra energy! Just be careful not to over weight it and take care to think about how tight you make it and what you put in there if you expect him to run and/or jump. Baggies of sand work well.

The only thing my dogs' collar is for, are his tags... use a body harness! You'll have better control of him, and it will be easier on his neck. A body harness has made a world of difference with every dog I've used one on. You might even want to try burning off that energy with a run if you use one. After you let him burn it off... start leash training. You don't need to change directions when he jerks the leash... just a firm jerk back, use the verbal & hand commands, nudges with your legs and feet... and keep letting him know where YOU want to go and where YOU want him to be while going there (like... stay just off of my left heel, and be paying attemtion to me). The changing directions technique is more to keep him paying attention to you... not to keep him from jerking the chain. In your case, if he's fighting the leash as in "get this thing off of me", sit him down and get him calm... then, stand up, use your command (let's go, come... whatever, but consistent), and start walking in the direction you want to go.

Also sound like he needs to be socialized with both people and other animals. That's another process in and amongst itself. You can start that once you get him understanding that your the alpha and he needs to be listening to you.

He really does want to please you... stick with discipline, excersize, and affection, and you'll be amazed at how different he'll behave.

Good luck and keep us posted. :)

.
 
Last edited:
GraysonK said:
My mom is a dog trainer and encourages people who come to her to get a choker collar. Now, some people will disagree with me on this. I have walked every dog I've ever owned on a choker and if used right will not hurt the dog. It is never, ever supposed to hurt the dog and if it does it is the sole responsibility of the handler.
The trick with the choker collar is to make sure that the collar just barely goes over the dogs head when you put on. Then, you want to make sure to keep the collar up high on the dogs neck just behind his/her ears. Before you start walking, put the dog in a sit then start walking. If he pulls, "pop" the collar. (a very short, sudden tightening of the collar). If that doesn't get his attention, stop, put him in a sit...make sure he sits right beside you. Then try again. Keep doing that over and over until he gets the message.
Also, if you have a breed of dog that is a working dog, it might help to get him a backpack. I know that sounds a little crazy, but they make backpacks for dogs. I use one for my border collie. Put a bottle of water in each side pocket...that gets them in a "working" mode. They have a task, something to do. It also burns a little excess energy which it sounds like he needs.
Lastly, remember that dogs want to be treated like dogs. They don't want to be treated like humans and don't have the same feelings you do. Yes, you want him to feel safe, but he also needs to be part of the "pack" and you are the leader of that pack, not him. Don't be mean, be assertive. And practice every day. If all of that doesn't work then I'd suggest you go ahead and get him and yourself back into obedience classes.
FYI-I also suggest either watching or reading anything by Caesar Milan, aka The Dog Whisperer. Most of what I've just said comes from him.
Gray
Click to expand...
You nailed it man, this works, I have three Rotts and didn't start working with my oldest till she was 5 and she was pretty set in her ways. You can get Caesar Milan's vid's cheap on ebay or Amazon. GET THEM
 
My dog loves her prong collar. Shes a 2 year old GSD, purebred from german stock and obedience trained. Shes had her prong collar since she was old enough to start training. It dosent hurt. ive put it on before and had people yank on it. I would never hurt my dog or cause her pain in any way.

Please dont call people lazy failures just because you dont like the prong collar. Police K-9 units all over the world are trained on these things, not by a stern "NO".

That being said, Cooper, my suggestion to you is a prong collar.
 
Hello everybody, thanks for taking the time to reply to me, I've got some great info.

I think I would like to try positive reinforcement before the prong collar simply because it is a style of training that we both have become used to. Either way seems to have a following.

This website outlines basically what I was told once during training several months ago http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/nopulling.html can anybody see anything glaringly wrong with this method? It seems to be what some of you are suggesting here.

We do train him pretty constantly, he learns his boundaries fast and tries to push them to the limit. I ask, and he always sits before we walk, cross the road etc. and has learned to wait when I ask so I can go through doors first. He works hard for his dinner too :). He knows out, down, shake, off, watch etc. (not all perfectly yet!) It's just the walking training that has seemed daunting to be honest - what with all the other training to keep on top of too. I'll start tonight though, round the block, and let you all know how it goes.

lil-foo, the socializing thing is something else we've been battling constantly, he's slowly learning to ignore things when I give the 'leave it' command, but it's slow going. I've also been thinking of taking him regularly to the SPCA to meet new dogs, so he gets to like them a little more. He's scared of people coming up to him, or if they have their hand out he'l bark like crazy. The reason the previous owners took him back to the pound (they had him for 4 years, after he was 1), was that he escaped their yard, got scared, and bit another dog - after that they realized that they couldn't take care of him.
 
Mongo, I think you said it very well, and I respect our difference of opinion on the prong collar. In fact, I more so agree than disagree, but stress that if they are used, they need to be used by a person who really knows what they are doing. Most people don't, and many that think they do, don't.
 
I don't know, those prong collars can dig into your dog. I knew this kid that had a dog die from tetnis, those collars can rust.
 
Just thought I'd let everybody know how well we did on our walk tonight :)

Buckley did really well - I left his gentle leader at mums house last time I was there so we had to do it with his harness. He caught on pretty quick. I think by the end of the walk I was getting a little bit sloppy with my technique so I'm going to have to practice and get more patience. All in all though, he's a fast learner...when there are treats involved :)

Thanks for all of your help! I'll continue to post updates on his progress. Hopefully he'l be on a regular collar by my left side in no time!
 
If the training works, that's what I would do.

That said, I found a great alternative a few years ago with a big rescue lab I had. I'll say first that I don't like keeping my dogs on a leash, and where I live and go with them that's not a problem 95% of the time; obviously once in a while I have to slap on the leash. The lab was a quick learner, obedient and very mellow, but had a driving mentality; he must've been an Iditarod champ in a past life or something.

So anyway, it just wasn't worth my time to break him of the pulling habit as it was just a complete non-issue except for that 5% of the time. So I bought him a harness that has two well padded ropes that go under the front armpits, come around to the top of the dog behind the head, and link up with a strap that has an adjustable pull through strap with a ring to attach the leash. For the most part, dogs can only pull with their front legs; when the dog tries to pull, the ropes under the arms lift up his front body with the taughtness of the leash and the pressure of its back legs, and the dog loses all its pulling strength. If I knew I would need to leash him, I would slap on the harness in 30 seconds and link it up to the leash later. He was simply unable to pull, and that's saying something for a 100 lb bag of muscle.

I don't have the package, and all the harness says is "yupp e puppy" on a metal linkage. I can't find it on the net, and it bears no relation to the "yuppie puppy" products that I can find. I also can't remember where I bought it......sorry. Still, keep your eyes out if your dog doesn't shape up.
 
Sounds to me like you are well on your way and on the right track.

We have two of the long haired versions. (tervuren) Energy and enthusiasm is a plus and a minus. Loving patience is the key. Keep working on socialization, it make take a while but if you remain calm they will calm down themselves.

If at all possible take him regularly to a safe place to run off leash. What we did is both of us walk the dog, then I usually take off running while the wife holds the dog. After 60 yards head start she lets them go, when they catch up to me she takes off running in the other direction and I send them after her. Repeat until dogs are tired.
 
Mongo said:
I'm going to apologize in advance for my tone....

1. You are about 4&3/4 yrs too late to teach your dog how to walk properly on a leash. This work needed to be done properly when he was a pup. Good news, it's not too late... just WAY harder. Dog has trained you these past 4+ years. Time for you to reassert yourself.

2. Stick with the halti-collar. Read the directions on how to use it properly.

3. Enroll yourself and your dog back into obedience classes. Practice EVERY day, not just in class. Utilize positive reinforcement techniques.

4. PRONG COLLARS DO NOT WORK. They are a sign of failure and laziness on the owner's part in my opinion. NO. Prong. collar.

5. You have a Belgian Malinois... one of the most intelligent breeds out there. Time to learn how to outsmart your dog. Again, go to classes. Complete one level, and go to the next highest. Complete that, move up. You have a "WORKING BREED" These dogs love to work. They do not know how to train themselves. You need to guide them. My money is on the dog... he's had a 5 year head-start.;)

6. Neuter him if he already isn't. Yes, it's important. No, he won't miss them.

Good luck with him. PM me if you want.
Click to expand...

Good advice stated, HE IS WORKING YOU, I have raised a few working/hunting dogs, be willing to be very firm aka German Shutzund style (he is belgian). Most of the german working breeds have always prized intelligence AND independance (my family is German decent). That is why shepards are so good at law enforcement, they can think for themselves.

If he does not listen after a few corrections, straight home with verbal admonishment and into the kennel or separate room. No walks till the next day. He will get sick of not having fun really quick. Lots of positive encouragement and praise when he does it right
I have helped friends break their dogs of this, just be willing to cut it short even though you may want the walk or exercise. Make sure the dog knows you are walking without him. They say smart dogs can rival 5 to 6 year old kids.
Love him but be the boss, it is what he really wants anyways.
 
Masteroffajitas said:
I don't know, those prong collars can dig into your dog. I knew this kid that had a dog die from tetnis, those collars can rust.
Click to expand...

The good German (expensive) prong collars, fitted and used properly, are very effective and humane.
They just look like a torture device. :D
I have witnessed them work successfully on old and young, small and large, shy and bold dogs.

Pressure is applied equally and briefly around the neck to get the dog's attention. The dog becomes conditioned to your movements and commands when it is used in conjunction with a treat, snapping of the handler's fingers, or tapping your leg.
Dogs can be weaned from the prong and carry over the obedience w/o it on. :)

The choke collars can be dangerous for a variety of reasons and pressure is applied in an isolated spot on the dog's throat. :thumbdn:

The gentle leader is effective when used but has little carry over effect when training progresses to off lead.

Small ten minute training sessions once or twice a day is far more effective than an hour once a week.

The advice about exercising your dog before a training session is sound.
Obedience training can be stressful. By burning off the energy he becomes more focused and relaxed which enables him to absorb more of what is being taught.
 
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