Don Nguyen's WIPs.

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Oct 4, 2011
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Hello all.

I started knifemaking about 2 months ago. Here are some of the things I am working on.

This is my first knife, finished November 4, 2011. Forged from Nicholson file, deferentially heated and martempered using brine. Maple burl handle.

Unfortunately I wasn't thinking and took no pictures of the WIP of this one. You wouldn't want to see the mess anyways :P
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Thanks for looking :)



-Don Nguyen
 
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Here are my second knives. Each one is half a Nicholson file, which I think is either 1095 or W1. They were cut and ground down some time in October, when I started my first knife. Unfortunately, I didn't know any better, so I annealed them before grinding the file teeth off. Hopefully it doesn't do anything drastically crazy.

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November 4, 2011. Here it is in the forge, ready for me to establish where the tangs will be.

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After a while, here they all are :)

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I had some time in between what I was working on at the moment. Still November 4, 2011.

This is the raw material I will be using for handles (for quite a while). It's called Indian Mountain Laurel; not sure about any other details.

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Cutting it up,

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Seems like good wood to work with, but, uh, what do I know... :P Each board makes 12 handles, and I've got 10 boards in total. Maybe I'll use some for saya's or something?
 
November 5, 2011. Forged out some of the basic lengths/thicknesses and did some hammering on the tangs too (mainly just to hold them better with tongs).

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Here is the culprit >:[

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Yesterday, November 8, 2011! Did some more work on the blades, but mostly got the tangs to length.

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Knife numero 1. Worst one out of the bunch; will probably be made into a small thingamajig. I didn't really have an idea for I wanted it to be, and this is what happens with an unorganized mind.
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I wanted to make this one a vegetable knife, but the width is looking a bit inadequate. Probably will be made into a smaller sized gyuto/chef's.
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THIS one I was going to make into a vegetable knife, but then I messed up on my big gyuto/chef's knife later seen. So this will be a medium sized gyuto/chef's.
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Ok. I really wanted to make a good sized gyuto. So I made it long. Drew out the length, thought I had enough material to get substantial width. It came out a bit too... narrow. :( So it's going to be a small slicer.
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As a slicer, it isn't too horrible. Not the gyuto I was envisioning, but...
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It seems like this one is the only one that came out the way I wanted. A really big damn sujihiki/slicer. I can't complain about it, really. Maybe you can, but I can't. At least not yet.
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Should I rename it to a kitchen sword, and not a kitchen knife?
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Later that day, November 8, 2011! I went for a lunch break, and jazz band rehearsal. Now back to forging and stuff :)

Here they are, after forging them further and then cutting+grinding them to rough shape. Some of them are still very thick, even though I thought I got the thicknesses good... =/
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Either I will have to grind them down to desired thickness, or I'll have to forge them down. Probably forge. I like forging more than grinding.
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Notice how the smallest knife is probably the thickest. Uh. It should really be the thinnest, to be honest.
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Tangs shaped out! They aren't too bad, I think. Maybe a bit skinny though... I kind of misjudged how much (or little) they would grow with the hammering.
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That's it for now. More to come tomorrow when I get back to the shop. Please excuse the badly designed and badly executed profiles; all criticism is yearned for. Thanks for looking :)



-Don Nguyen
 
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I think you should just name it sword. I wanna see that one finished. Your forging looks great. Wish I had room for a hammer. My newly finished Log Splitter conversion will have to do. More progress pics.
Yesterday, November 8, 2011! Did some more work on the blades, but mostly got the tangs to length.

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Knife numero 1. Worst one out of the bunch; will probably be made into a small thingamajig. I didn't really have an idea for I wanted it to be, and this is what happens with an unorganized mind.
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I wanted to make this one a vegetable knife, but the width is looking a bit inadequate. Probably will be made into a smaller sized gyuto/chef's.
IMG_0342.jpg

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THIS one I was going to make into a vegetable knife, but then I messed up on my big gyuto/chef's knife later seen. So this will be a medium sized gyuto/chef's.
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Ok. I really wanted to make a good sized gyuto. So I made it long. Drew out the length, thought I had enough material to get substantial width. It came out a bit too... narrow. :( So it's going to be a small slicer.
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As a slicer, it isn't too horrible. Not the gyuto I was envisioning, but...
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It seems like this one is the only one that came out the way I wanted. A really big damn sujihiki/slicer. I can't complain about it, really. Maybe you can, but I can't. At least not yet.
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Should I rename it to a kitchen sword, and not a kitchen knife?
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I believe you are doing a super job !! The one thing I would recommend is going to a "known" steel on your next ones. If this is practice, I don't think you need it. Frank
 
Thanks for the comments! After these are finished I will be working with 1084 for a while, and maybe after I get sufficiently comfortable with it give a try at 52100 or something.

I'm still debating whether or not to grind the bevels before or after the heat treat.
 
Got some good progress today. Cleaned the tangs a bit, drilled them, and heat treated the blades. Or tried to heat treat them. We will see how they turned out, but I learned a loooot in the progress. Pictures will be up soon.
 
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The long slicer curved along the spine a bit too much after I normalized it, but back in the forge it goes. The big pipe in there is for critical temp later on. It's kind of like an oven inside an oven. More even heating, less muck on the steel.
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Adjusting the curve...
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I think that's good. Then for normalization again. I am judging by eye. Really though, I'm guessing. It's bright out, and I'm inexperienced. My thought process was, "Get it as close as I can to what I think critical temp is. It's probably a dull red in this lighting."
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My heat treating set-up. Brine to the left of the forge, and the extra anvil to the left of that is for warp adjustments before Ms.
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I later moved the brine set-up to a dim area so I can see the colors better. Couldn't see anything here.
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Getting to critical (or what I think is critical).
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Clamping down in a warm area (after quench) for Ms --> Mf.
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A little doohickey I devised so I don't have to fumble around with the tongs. Works especially well if I need to adjust where the blade has to go (the heat area is a bit small). I modified it right after so I can use it at long distances.
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So the heat treating didn't go that well to be honest. I was playing a guessing game, trying to do a martempering process that I didn't quite understand. I learned a lot in the process, however. I get a much harder blade if I leave it in the quench for half a second longer than what I was doing. Most of all, I do a much better job when I'm not rushing to get things completed. I should leave heat treating for when I'm in a level-headed mood. I ended up with areas of the edge not quite hardened, and most of the blade warping (thinking I could straighten later during the temper).

So I come home with shoddy hardened blades, with clamps and a straight piece of metal (relatively straight). Put it in the oven, and 30 minutes later the whole house stinks; it was probably the paint on the clamps. So I have to use the grill now, which has no temperature gauge. I followed advice from Rich Hale to use the tempering colors as a guide (used a separate piece of metal, since the blades had all the scale on them). First temper didn't straighten out the blades, so I stuck them in there again with the flame slightly hotter; just a notch. Weather around the area got colder, so the grill isn't as hot. I turn it up juuuust another notch. Check back and the temper color is now a dull purple. Overheated. Not even straight either.

Looks like I have to go back and treat them again, this time doing it properly. Kind of glad that I messed up the temper, or else the heat treat would have been very, very, mediocre. Just bad. Also irritated that I didn't get any real progress done today, but on the same thought train, I did learn a heckofalot. I just have to learn my lesson not to rush things; I never seem to learn it.

Here they are, taken out of the grill, still clamped.
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You can slightly see the hint of purple where I file-checked earlier. The scrap piece of metal I was using to gauge temperature was full purple.
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Thanks for looking.
 
Hey Brother, nice work so far! Have you thought about looking around and seeing if there's a local maker who can help with the heat treat? By all means, man, kuddos for making use of what you have, but we can all see how much time and energy you've put into these knives that I would love to see them finished to their maximum potential (at least tempered to a consistent temp ;)! ). Anyway, great work so far and thanks for posting so many pictures! I'm attempting my first couple kitchen knives right now and have been very intimidated thus far but I haven't ruined them yet! (key word = yet)
 
Thanks for the kind comments amcardon.

I want to give these ones another go before anything else. I know that the biggest reason why the heat treat failed is because of my own dumb misjudgment. I'm going to reforge them straight, normalize, and crack at it again; this time controlled and calm. Hopefully my tempilstik will arrive in the mail by then, which should let me know when Ms is :)

Still have to decide on how I'm going to temper this. I wanted to do the tempering in a large oven, because I can try to temper them straight while clamped like shown above (almost guaranteed they're going to warp). I do have about a minute to hammer them straighter right after quench, before Ms; they're very springy at this point though. Perhaps that is what I am going to do - ensure straightness before quench, and fix warps right before it hits Ms - then clamp from Ms --> Mf.

I honestly wish the lab workshop just had a simple oven there. Would make this process much more flowy :)
 
A little update on what I've been up to lately. Mostly it's been re-doing the heat treats. I normalized each of them, straightened, and normalized a few more times. I made sure not to get them overheated, using a magnet as reference point. I didn't get a chance to get any canola oil or anything (and at this point, I certainly can't buy anything too costly), so for these few blades at the moment I'm still trying out the interrupted brine quench.

I stopped using the big pipe. It wasn't allowing me to control the heat; worked for the smaller blades, not the biggun. I set the forge on low, and then stuck the blade in and out, holding them with tongs. Made sure the heat went evenly, which it did.

Same process overall. After normalization, bring it up to non-magnetic (I earlier was aiming for a little above non-magnetic, but with my shoddy skills/experience and lack of precise temperature measurement, I played it safe and went for just non-magnetic), and then do a very quick (one second) quench in brine. At this point it's well below 900 degrees F, around 450 F (I had a tempilstik at hand, which was handy). Now it's just starting to transform to martensite, and I have a very small window to try to correct any major warpages. Do whatever I can at this moment before it gets too hot, and then try to fix them later in the tempering. Right when it slowly cools to a slight warm in the hand, I grind off the scale and then do a makeshift temper. I wasn't anywhere near home where I have the baking oven, and at the school workshop we don't have any ovens. So, I used a forge. Low heat, stuck it far away. I check the temper colors on the blade very regularly and make adjustments now and then until it just starts to go a light straw color. That's when I take the blade and lightly tap it with a hammer to correct warps (riiiisky game, and it'll show in the pictures). I make sure to tap the blade when it's around 400 degrees, or else I risk even more of doing something horrible (my train of thought was, "if I'm going to tap with a hammer, hotter is better"). I don't get the blade any hotter than this; I leave that for the home oven, which they're in right now.

The smallest 3 blades were straight forward without any hickups. Larger blades had trouble controlling heat and warps. Not to mention I messed up the temper 3 million times and started over. At the very least I decarburized them like crazy and all sorts of no-no's.

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Notice something different?

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It started out as a small crack about 1/3 way up the edge. Probably happened when I was trying the straighten it. I plucked off the tip to inspect. Dianosis? Anything horrible about it, besides the chunk missing? I can't really tell, but it doesn't look too coarse...



I have also been working on a pizza pan. Really ghetto ugly thing, but at least I can now bake some bigger pizzas :)

EDIT: I do realize that many and probably all of my approach isn't that effective. I was kind of in a trial and error mode, just to see what happens when I do this or that.
 
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Looking good, I'm real interested in seeing these finished, I'm really liking the shapes. As for trial and error, I wouldn't be able to learn any other way. Hard to tell from the photo without seeing it in person but looks like the grain is a little on the large size, like it's been overheated a bit, either in the quench or wasn't normalized before the quench. I work large stock down and I do a lot of normalizing heats, not all of them at the end of the forging cycle. If I work the bar down but don't forge a blade I'll do a couple normalizing cycles before quitting on it for the day. Or am I looking at the back side of an edge quenched blade? Did the crack start at the quench line?

BTW, as a pizza fiend I'd love to see the pizza pan as well.
 
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Hmm! Well if it helps with reference at all, the width of the area where it cracked is about 1 inch. The whole blade was quenched, not just the edge. I still have the tip at hand; I'll crack it a few more times to see.

If it was overheated at all, it was definitely right before the quench. I know that I got the temperatures relatively low for the normalizations prior (3 of them, right as the blade started to lose magnetism).

UPDATE: Sticky situation! After I tempered them at 400 F in the kitchen oven last night (which might actually be high 400's, maybe even 480; the tempering colors are a bold mustard yellow). the biggo slicer started to bend back a little bit to its original warp. I can't clamp it to anything, because I don't have any clamps on me at home, and the clamps from school smell BAD when in the oven (nono from Mom).

Maybe just ultra lightly bend it by hand when it's at temper heat? I just did that a liiiitle bit, which worked some, but it's still there. Of all the blades I'm working on, the biggo slicer is the one I want to succeed the most :(
 
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Like I said, it's hard to see the grain in a pic, it might just be the alloy, or it might be the lighting. Or it might be I'm used to looking at 52100? It could also be from the brine quench, it's very harsh compared to an oil quench.

I've had pretty good success straightening blades by using a big vise and three wood dowels, approximately 3/4" dia. or so. Basically put two on one side, one on the other side in the middle and put the bow of the blade to the single one. Tighten the vise till the blade is a little past straight and release. It should be straight, or you might have to go a little further. What I've done is to drill holes in one end of the dowels and put a welding rod through them to hang thing from the vise jaws. If there full quenched you might need to do a soft back draw. And I'd do it on the third temper while the blades hot. No garontee that you won't break the blade, but this is the gentlest method I've used.

You might be inducing stress when you clamp after quench. I've had good results in letting the blades cool to room temp in the quench oil.
 
I decided to work with my least favorite one first. The one that chipped and seemed least functional to me. Too skinny, narrow, weird profile, etc. Too too thin too. Also the fact that it chipped :P

I chose to do a single bevel grind on it. I ground the tip to profile soon later, but I actually think I like the chisel like tip I have here. Oh well. The circles marked are high spots.

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The tool room!

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Here I am at work, grinding it down flatter.

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I didn't actually mean to give that kind of look, but uh, it just kind of ended up that way. I was just looking at the camera to see if it was still taking pictures :)

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For my very first knife, I tried to do a solid flat grind with a nice ridge line. I thought it would be easy, aaand it wasn't. At all. I ended up grinding like 3 inches off the end and turned it into a full convex with the slack belt. So this time I thought I'd try out some angle guides and/or jigs for a flat grind. Nothing worked. So I said, "Forget it! I'll just do it by hand!"

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I actually enjoyed doing the flat grind all by hand :P With the jigs, tool rest, guides, whatevers, I got mad when things weren't going well. So I threw all that out the window and just focused on technique. It's not perfect, but certainly better than my first attempt. Would also help if the whole blade was initially one whole flat thing, instead of a thin wobbly kind of warpy thing.


Now it's at home, being hand sharpened. I don't have any vises or anything, so I brought some clamps to set up a work area. It works ok.

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More updates to come soon!

EDIT: That backside shown in the homemade sanding set up is a ghetto concave grind. I'm not even sure it worked, but I was just trying it out. I don't have a wheel big enough to do a proper full hollow. If anything, it just made hand sanding more difficult :P
 
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Not too shabby for the first time grinding. I still have to step back from the grinder and fix the bevels with sandpaper and blocks. Of course I'm going for a slight convex so that helps. I am really envious of people who can come straight off the grinder with a fine finish.
 
I got some stuff done over the past few days. After I got the finish on the blade, it was time for handles!

Here is the knife with one scale wood glue'd to one side and drilled. The second scale is glued on there now too, ready to be drilled.

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Using some of the glue already on there and some pins, I cleaned up the front of the handle area.

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Some more.

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Now for the epoxy and clamps.

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I didn't really take any other photos after this. Just waited till they were cured and then shaped them out on the belt sander. It was kind of an experimental stage, seeing what handle shapes do what and stuff. I ended up with something that I half-like :P It's already been used during Thanksgiving. Patina has been established.

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The end product I'm not fully proud of. I made a little thumb grove on the left side of the handle, and ended up thinking it was dumb. I messed up the finish while sharpening, so I did some fixing with sandpaper. It kind of made the knife much, much more sloppy than I wanted it to be. Overall though, it was a very good learning experience. Next time, I won't limit myself to a Thanksgiving time-limit, and work at my own pace to finish it up. Cuts very well, and is fairly stick-less when it comes to food. Can chop potatoes without much sticking at all. Cuts tomatoes and pops hairs.
 
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