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Double edges for survival?
- Thread starter CAman
- Start date
- Joined
- May 4, 2000
- Messages
- 228
It is my understanding that the Fairbairn was used strictly as a "killing" knife. For the more mundane chores around camp the jungle fighters (SAS et al.)are issued a "Golock", a parang like knife used for making shelters and other things. They also issue another knife very similar to our Kabar which has a wooden handle.
As for double edge knives for survival, I guess the Randall #2 would do the trick as it is heavy enough to chop if necessary. I think you would find however that it would lack in the fine skills (making fuzz sticks; carving trap triggers, etc.) due to its size and blade shape.
My Randall #18 has the upper (false) edge sharpened, as do my Kabar and Pilot Suvival, so I guess you could call them double edge knives.
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Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney
As for double edge knives for survival, I guess the Randall #2 would do the trick as it is heavy enough to chop if necessary. I think you would find however that it would lack in the fine skills (making fuzz sticks; carving trap triggers, etc.) due to its size and blade shape.
My Randall #18 has the upper (false) edge sharpened, as do my Kabar and Pilot Suvival, so I guess you could call them double edge knives.
------------------
Where no law exists there still must be justice- Dan Mahoney
We hade the same topic come up over on the Hoodlums forum. FYI...
I've used a variety of daggers and found them all to be poorly balanced for the type of work I do a lot of, chopping. Other limitations include a loss of control during whittling when I place my thumb on the spine for control, I can't hit the spine of the blade with another stick to drive the blade into wood for splitting... the other stick gets cut. It's use as a drawknife is limited to the number of cuts you want to receive.... THere's more but I guess I made my point.
I'd just carry another knife if I wanted two edges... hell I do anyway
Ron
------------------
Learn Life Extension at:
http://www.survival.com ]
I've used a variety of daggers and found them all to be poorly balanced for the type of work I do a lot of, chopping. Other limitations include a loss of control during whittling when I place my thumb on the spine for control, I can't hit the spine of the blade with another stick to drive the blade into wood for splitting... the other stick gets cut. It's use as a drawknife is limited to the number of cuts you want to receive.... THere's more but I guess I made my point.
I'd just carry another knife if I wanted two edges... hell I do anyway
Ron
------------------
Learn Life Extension at:
http://www.survival.com ]
Some of my relatives were commandoes during WW2, and I had some friends over here in Canada who were too.
The knife in question was designed with the express intent of being able to teach people to kill with it in a very short time. So far as I know in most cases the myth of the highly trained commando was just that - except for some teams highly trained for specific stuff. They took the toughest people they could find, weeded out the weakest by the nature of the fast tough training, and the others got to jump out of planes and such.
The knife was never meant as a utility knife.
The knife in question was designed with the express intent of being able to teach people to kill with it in a very short time. So far as I know in most cases the myth of the highly trained commando was just that - except for some teams highly trained for specific stuff. They took the toughest people they could find, weeded out the weakest by the nature of the fast tough training, and the others got to jump out of planes and such.
The knife was never meant as a utility knife.
Although I have no training or real time experience with the double-edge dagger, I would like to add few points to the other opinions:
1) Originated from the Middle Ages in Eu, it served as a self-defense and second blade after the STRAIGHT sword. In certain areas of the world (even in Eastern Eu where sabre ruled) it never became popular. As far as I know, it was originally designed to finish off the injured foe by piercing between the armor plates into the vital organ at the end of the fight (quite cruel). Where heavy armor was not used (Ex. Middle East), it never became popular.
2) Because of that it was designed for piercing SOFT MATERIALS. That is served by the pointy tip that is rather weak for anything else (piercing armor-tanto rules, praying in a tactical or survival situ).
3) LACKS any BELLY for cutting or skinning.
4) LONG SLIM BLADE is good for reaching any organ even through thick clothes but lateral (?) weakness is a downside for survival.
5) Tang is even thinner and therefore weaker.
6) DOUBLE HILT is a plus in self-defense (to catch a blade?) and to avoid slipping hand onto edge on either side but makes difficult positioning your thumb for pushing the blade or for delicate whittling.
7) DOUBLE EDGE is a drawback when splitting wood. But a big plus in knife fight when both pushing and pulling the blade can inflict severe injury.
8) ROUNDED/OVAL grip might be fine for a thrust but not for a sure grip in a wet palm.
9) SKULL CRUSHER pommel -as it says- might be fine for getting bone marrow out
but not for hammering on it.
These are some of my learnings from here-and-there. If the use of this type of blade interests you, I would turn to the Tactical or Self-defense forums for additional info.
BTW, as I had chance yesterday to read through the SAS Encyclopedia, I saw the old issue survival machete on a photo mentioned among the essential gear. Well, nothing fancy, rather like a beaten up wooden handle sugar cane machete. If I remember correctly seeing the new isuue model in another SAS survival book, it looks more like a bolo with a forward curve with Kraton-looking handle.
Sorry, if it came out too long.
HM
1) Originated from the Middle Ages in Eu, it served as a self-defense and second blade after the STRAIGHT sword. In certain areas of the world (even in Eastern Eu where sabre ruled) it never became popular. As far as I know, it was originally designed to finish off the injured foe by piercing between the armor plates into the vital organ at the end of the fight (quite cruel). Where heavy armor was not used (Ex. Middle East), it never became popular.
2) Because of that it was designed for piercing SOFT MATERIALS. That is served by the pointy tip that is rather weak for anything else (piercing armor-tanto rules, praying in a tactical or survival situ).
3) LACKS any BELLY for cutting or skinning.
4) LONG SLIM BLADE is good for reaching any organ even through thick clothes but lateral (?) weakness is a downside for survival.
5) Tang is even thinner and therefore weaker.
6) DOUBLE HILT is a plus in self-defense (to catch a blade?) and to avoid slipping hand onto edge on either side but makes difficult positioning your thumb for pushing the blade or for delicate whittling.
7) DOUBLE EDGE is a drawback when splitting wood. But a big plus in knife fight when both pushing and pulling the blade can inflict severe injury.
8) ROUNDED/OVAL grip might be fine for a thrust but not for a sure grip in a wet palm.
9) SKULL CRUSHER pommel -as it says- might be fine for getting bone marrow out
These are some of my learnings from here-and-there. If the use of this type of blade interests you, I would turn to the Tactical or Self-defense forums for additional info.
BTW, as I had chance yesterday to read through the SAS Encyclopedia, I saw the old issue survival machete on a photo mentioned among the essential gear. Well, nothing fancy, rather like a beaten up wooden handle sugar cane machete. If I remember correctly seeing the new isuue model in another SAS survival book, it looks more like a bolo with a forward curve with Kraton-looking handle.
Sorry, if it came out too long.
HM
- Joined
- May 26, 2000
- Messages
- 1,922
Doc Ron is right on.
The double edged knife would appear to be a pure self defense weapon, and in this regard, would be an appreciable advantage.
For anything BUT self defense, double edge is a liability. Of course, I read this, figured "aahh, what do they know", bought a Dozier Ranger (great knife, great feel), ended up dulling the sharpened top edge in the dirt after using it in the field for a while. The only thing you end up cutting with the sharpened top edge (outside of self defense) is yourself.
You wanna dull a knife FAST, dirt is the way to go by the way. Beats dirty rope 3:1.
The double edged knife would appear to be a pure self defense weapon, and in this regard, would be an appreciable advantage.
For anything BUT self defense, double edge is a liability. Of course, I read this, figured "aahh, what do they know", bought a Dozier Ranger (great knife, great feel), ended up dulling the sharpened top edge in the dirt after using it in the field for a while. The only thing you end up cutting with the sharpened top edge (outside of self defense) is yourself.
You wanna dull a knife FAST, dirt is the way to go by the way. Beats dirty rope 3:1.