Dozier D2 Steel: How Do You Sharpen It???

B

bowler1

Gold Member
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Mar 26, 2000
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138
Hi,
This is a bit of a follow up to some previous posts I have recently made. I have been convinced by the claims of several members here that Dozier knives are worthy and superior tools. However, I am having a heck of a time getting them sharp. I recently purchased a couple of his knives and none of them came very sharp. I have been trying to sharpen them but without much success.

I totally believe that his knives are excellent and that they will hold an edge, but if I can't get an edge on them in the first place then that's a problem.

I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker that I have been trying to use---with the standard ceramic rods and a set of diamond rods I recently picked up, but with at least one of the Doziers I just can't get it sharp. I have tried it at the 20 and 15 degree angles (just in the event it was an issue with sharpening angle). I also tried a loaded strop but that did not seem to work either.

Any thoughts? I want to like his knives, but I must be able to get them sharp. Do I need to try a different sharpener?

FWIW I have never owned a high quality knife I could not get sharp.

thanks

Matt
 
In all honesty, it sounds like you know what you're doing.

The reality is that I have had experiences exactly like yours, both with customs and various production knives. Some knives just won't get sharp, usually as a result of sub-par heat treatment. While it is obviously rare with quality production knives and custom makers, it happens.

The only thing I can suggest, and has worked with some success for me - is to play around with final grind angles. Some knives just don't respond well to certain angles, and it appears that is what you are attempting. And some knives just don't get sharp until you reach "fresh" steel, untouched by the maker or manufacturer's belt or wheel.

Not much help I know, but don't give up until you have at least tried several times to get the edge you want. Good luck.
 
Shane45 gave good advice...... Don't give up.
I don't have any Doziers, but I like the style. I'm cheering for you.

I'm a somewhat recent maker, I have experience with making knives in a variety of steels. I'm trying D2 pretty soon/next..... But otherwise I on!y have one knife with it.

however, I know your pain.... I hand sharpen everything by eye, no fixfures. I had to sharpen a knife recently, it took me three days.
stay at it.
 
Sharpmaker (and other sharpeners with set angles) won't work until the knife's existing edge angle matches the sharpener angle.
Mark the primary bevel with a sharpie. Take a couple of swipes on the sharpmaker, and use a magnifying glass to note where the sharpie marking is missing.

>> No black at all = angle match. This is the desired state.
>> Black at the edge, but not farther up the bevel means you are sharpening at a narrower angle than the knife bevel. You aren't sharpening yet. Edge is not being touched. Keep going until there's no black.
>> No black at edge, but black farther up the bevel means you are sharpening at a wider angle than the knife. You are sharpening the very edge, but not the rest of the bevel. It'll cut better if you sharpen the entire bevel.

My experience with D2 and Sharpmaker is that it can be done with the ceramic rods, but D2 is more easily sharpened with diamonds because D2 contains vanadium carbide. Vanadium carbide is harder than the aluminum oxide of the ceramic rods.
 
I sharpen my Dozier K1 General Utility freehand on a DMT coarse (220 grit) hone, then finish on a DMT fine or ultra-fine. That produces a hair-popping edge that cuts like a miniature chainsaw. Dick Peters, long-time Yukon guide/outfitter, told me he sharpened his D2 blades on the coarsest hone he had to get that biting edge that would shear through sinews and joints.
 
Some good advice! Good point on the angle maybe not matching that of the Sharpmaker...and that eventually it will with enough work. I think that may be issue....a slight difference in the edge angle. I guess with enough time and effort I can make it match. My experience with a lot of knives has been that the angle matches quite well. Maybe the handground Doziers vary a little bit from a straight 20 degree angle. Or maybe I just need to freehand sharpen on a diamond stone. I can try that too.

I do recall having a Dozier Pro Guide years ago and that it was able to get hair popping sharp fairly quick on the Sharpmaker. Maybe it was just that the factory edge was a true 20 degree angle like that of the Sharpmaker.

I will continue to work at it and hope for good results, but my experience so far has me tempted to get another Bark River---although their quality is supposedly poor I can get the really sharp, quite fast and quite easily.

thanks
Matt
 
Knarfeng +1
As per Bob Dozier explaining to a customer at a NY show
"Lay the knife blade on the (diamond) stone. See the shadow under the edge? Raise the spine of the knife till the shadow just disappears. That's your angle."
I have a DMT stone I bought from him. Not sure if it is coarse or medium. Asked if I wore it out.... "Does it feel like an eggshell? Then it's just right."
The OP's knives just got too dull.
After he gets them sharp, tune ups will be much, much easier.
 
Ebbtide said:
Knarfeng +1
As per Bob Dozier explaining to a customer at a NY show
"Lay the knife blade on the (diamond) stone. See the shadow under the edge? Raise the spine of the knife till the shadow just disappears. That's your angle."
I have a DMT stone I bought from him. Not sure if it is coarse or medium. Asked if I wore it out.... "Does it feel like an eggshell? Then it's just right."
The OP's knives just got too dull.
After he gets them sharp, tune ups will be much, much easier.
Click to expand...
The OP has been using a Sharpmaker, and having difficulty. So that's what I addressed.
 
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/204MF/Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-reg-/77 - This sharpener ?
I got me something similar 30 years ago .. I found it to be .............................................................. Not my style ! ... ( Didn't work for me )

So I have gone guided knife sharpener ( fixed angle sharpening ) .. Plenty to chose from .. Like Lansky / Gatco / DMT / I use one like this one all the time ... Less human error and a nice straight bevel .
There are many ways to sharpen a knife , the easy way , the hard way , the right way and the wrong way .
Just have to find what works for you . I have done it 4 ways ..
And sage wisdom suggests the easy / right way ! ( But that's just me )
 
Seems like so many blades in D2 are often very thick behind the edge - that may or may not be an issue with individual knives in D2. All but one of my own were very thick behind the edge. And D2's wear resistance, due to it's carbide content, makes thinning out the edge more challenging. If the edge isn't thinned out adequately, the steel's wear resistance will make refinement on ceramics all the more difficult. D2 is very fussy in refinement stages because its chromium carbides are so large - up to 50 microns or larger, sometimes - and must be carefully thinned & shaped at the apex to make the edge as crisp as it should be.

For aggressive thinning of an edge in D2, either silicon carbide (SiC) or diamond/cbn in fairly coarse grit, like 220/320 ballpark, will work very well. Once the edge is thinned out, refining is best done with diamond or cbn, which will more easily cut & shape the carbides at a light touch. Most prefer not to finish D2 to a high polish, as it is very popular in a more toothy finish at the edge - I suspect that has a lot to do with how tedious it gets in trying for a higher finish while still trying to protect the crispness at the apex. It CAN be polished to shaving-sharp if desired - but again, if taking it that far, then a diamond/cbn progression is best for that, with polishing done on hard strops of wood with diamond compound (or cbn) at 3-micron and finer.

These days, with my own knives in D2, I'd generally prefer the simplest approach possible for sharpening. That'd mean using something like a Coarse (325) or Fine (600) diamond hone almost exclusively for edge maintenance and using either of those, as chosen by preference, to do most or all of the deburring as well. Minimize stropping as much as possible, except on a bare strop of leather for cleaning up weak remnants of burrs left over.
 
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Again, some very good points! thanks!

I would agree about the comment about the steel behind the edge being thick and making it harder to sharpen. I would also agree with the comment about the knives being too dull to start with. The problem though is that these are NEW knives that were not sharp in the first place.

I do believe that maintaining an edge is critical....and not letting it get dull in the first place. It just kind of sucks when it came dull in the first place.

I have been a fan of the Sharpmaker for probably 25 years now. I have found that it can sharpen just about any knife to a super sharp edge with minimal time, but that has not been the case so far with the Doziers. Agree with others' comments that it is probably a combination of edge angle, edge thickness....and the harder properties of the D2.

I have decided to sell two of the Doziers I picked up becuase they are not quite what I am looking for. I have another one arriving tomorrow (a K2 General Purpose). Hopefully that one will come sharp or will sharpen up easier on my Sharpmaker. If so, then I should be good to go. If not, then will work to try to re-profile the edge wiht the Sharpmaker or try using a flat diamond stone. I just have generally moved away from freehand sharpening over the years in favor of the Sharpmaker given its angle consistency. But I guess consistency only is worth sos much if the angle is not a true 15 or 20 degree like the two options on the Sharpmaker.

Matt
 
In addition to using a Sharpie marker as recommended, the absolute best thing you can get is a jeweler's eye loupe. It allows you to look at the edge with high magnification. You will easily be able to see if your stone angle is hitting the edge, or just removing material above it and not touching the edge.
 
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I’ve never heard of nor seen a dull Dozier straight from the shop.

If you bought them new I’d contact the shop.
On the second hand market, well, who knows.
 
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Belt sander....,silicon carbide or diamond stone to reprofile it first,then you can touch it up on sharpmaker.
 
They are probably ground 20 Degrees + per side, so you probably haven't reached the apex on the 20's on the sharpmaker. D2 done well is very wear resistent, so I would suggest using the diamond rods, but only sharpening one side until you raise a bur along the entire opposite edge. Swap sides until the bur is fully flipped to the other side. Make sure you only use the lightest of pressure on the diamonds as they are very course and leave a deep scratch pattern. Once you have raised a bur on both sides, swap over to the brown rods and use the sharpmaker as instructed, alternating sides each stroke etc.
 
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