Drawing the line

H

hellgap

Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
1,189
I have not posted here much lately but have been awaken by a issue. I think people need to think before they leap. My reputation is important and I wont have it based on the poor craftsman ship of others. I have noticed there really are fine lines in the knife making industry but one that should never be crossed is quality. We all hear about this guy or that guy having great quality but really lets be honest. I have talked to makers to their face and they have flat out lied to me saying they made the knife I was looking at when it was clearly a blank premade. Now this on one hand is ok as long as the quality is to be a high standard. Also as long as the maker or should I say seller is honest enought to say he never made the blade but did attach the handle make the sheath and so on. I dont have a problem with honesty but I do see this line bending way too much lately. Here is a good hypothetical synerio, A guy selling damascus blanks says oh yes the best damascus ever but has never tested it never used it and really has only ever sold it not knowing of its true properties. If this damascus is the most stunning eye candy ever ,Does this mean it is the best? Beauty in my opinion is only skin deep . When you find delamination heavy rusting in mild use situation and a ROCKWELL HARNESS of 50 would you still buy this eye candy. I think not. I hope we dont let pretty get in the way of quality as they dont alway go hand in hand.
 
Quality in knifemaking, handmade vs. finished blanks, damascus beauty is only skin deep..........I'm sorry, but your rant is all over the map. What's the point of your thread?? You need to be a bit more concise if you're looking for responses, because what you have posted is just rambling all over the place.:confused:
 
Yes, I agree with Jonny... I'm not sure where the "line" is with this thread...

Maker Honesty?
What is considered Custom?
Blade Steel Source Reputation?


Rick
 
You guys will have to excuse Kelly, It is getting cold up in Moosejaw, and he is starting to get early cabin fever. Looking forward to another six month long Saskatchewan winter makes a man a little disoriented.
Sounds like Kelly went to a knife show and met one of the several dealers that sell the Pak/India blades and tell everyone that they make them themselves. The blades are all junk, and the finished knives are pretty average looking. A certain dealer ,who's name sounds like a SC city, tells the customer that he forges them himself by hand on his back porch. He says they don't need HT because the forging makes them hard enough. They are all between 48 and 50 Rockwell. These chaps really make it hard on the legit guys when the customers don't know the difference between a quality damascus knife and a low priced flashy piece of layered crap.
 
A few years back, a customer brought me a India/paki damascus blade to finish out for him. It was near dead soft, and nothing I tried would harden it. Not even water. He paid $80.00 for that piece of crap.
 
I understand what he's getting at though. There was a thread in here a bit ago talking about less than honest makers, saying they made a custom blade, yet all they did was put together a kit. And then there's the "top quality damascus" on ebay. hehe.
 
bladsmth said:
You guys will have to excuse Kelly, It is getting cold up in Moosejaw, and he is starting to get early cabin fever. Looking forward to another six month long Saskatchewan winter makes a man a little disoriented.
Sounds like Kelly went to a knife show and met one of the several dealers that sell the Pak/India blades and tell everyone that they make them themselves. The blades are all junk, and the finished knives are pretty average looking. A certain dealer ,who's name sounds like a SC city, tells the customer that he forges them himself by hand on his back porch. He says they don't need HT because the forging makes them hard enough. They are all between 48 and 50 Rockwell. These chaps really make it hard on the legit guys when the customers don't know the difference between a quality damascus knife and a low priced flashy piece of layered crap.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the translation!:) I can see how that would make a guy a little hot under the collar....
 
If you need some damascus or just some help the Saskatchewan knife maker guild meets once a month, the second Tue in Regina. First meeting of the season is on Sept 14th. PM me or email if you want to come check us out.
 
Now Stacey I think your right I seen a snow flake the other day but blinked and it was only saw dust but yes winter is coming. Yup went to a show not much of one and I have to say the least I hate liars . These guys wanna take credit for scrap steel damascus go right ahead cuzz im not afraid to tell them to their face. And im not 6 ft 3 even though im brave as a man of that stature. nothing and I mean nothing worse than a liar I taught my kids that and I live by that rule and only that rule. In all reality now that ive vented Stacey I feel better , What Month Is It ??? lmao . Stacey I have learned alot in the past 2 months grinding steel I have been hollow grinding straight razors its very difficult but now my knives are better because razors are so so thin . I think its too bad that these knife salesmen have to lie so much to make a sale it gives the true makers a bad rep. Thanks for watching my back stacey lol next time I will cool off before posting lol
 
I wasn't aware of the dumbasscus frauds... that's gutsy. How do these guys get into the shows? Bawlz.

Rick
 
I have a customer that brings me Damascus ,52100,and carbon steel blanks to handle and filework for him.He gets them on ebay from that two fingers crew in Idaho mostly.After im done with them he buys custom sheaths and pays House of Blades to put his mark on them.He then takes them to shows and gets good money for them.These blades arent foreign junk.I havent used them ,but i work the edges and the steel seems fine and they are expertly ground.Im not sure what he tells his customers,but he has had success and gets many repeat customers.Its seems a little weird,but i dont really see anything wrong with it if he's not outright lying which is always wrong.Alabama Damascus sells good steel on ebay.Also another Idaho guy i cant remember the name of.Anyway,taking the cash may cloud my judgement,but im wishing the guy best of luck!
 
Seals said:
I have a customer that brings me Damascus ,52100,and carbon steel blanks to handle and filework for him.He gets them on ebay from that two fingers crew in Idaho mostly.After im done with them he buys custom sheaths and pays House of Blades to put his mark on them.He then takes them to shows and gets good money for them.These blades arent foreign junk.I havent used them ,but i work the edges and the steel seems fine and they are expertly ground.Im not sure what he tells his customers,but he has had success and gets many repeat customers.Its seems a little weird,but i dont really see anything wrong with it if he's not outright lying which is always wrong.Alabama Damascus sells good steel on ebay.Also another Idaho guy i cant remember the name of.Anyway,taking the cash may cloud my judgement,but im wishing the guy best of luck!
Click to expand...

so what exactly does this guy do??? (besides sell them)
 
SShepherd said:
so what exactly does this guy do??? (besides sell them)
Click to expand...

Gathers the materials,good stuff.mammoth tooth and ivory,exoctic stabilized woods ect..,makes occasional design changes if he wants fingergrooves ect..,drives all over hell to shows(i dont want to do it),and sells them.
 
So you are okay with being the man behind the curtain, Seals? Is this just a very small scale cashcow for you, then? I'm trying to grasp the idea of someone puting their mark on a prefab'd blade that I mounted and someone else sheathed.... it just ain't sittin' right.

Unless...

He openly shares this with his customers, then no harm no foul. Kinda like a homebuilder subcontracting everything out to experts in their respective fields.... in the end, it is still HIS name behind the build, even though he has never held a hammer, himself.

Interesting subject.



Rick
 
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Rick Marchand said:
So you are okay with being the man behind the curtain, Seals? Is this just a very small scale cashcow for you, then? I'm trying to grasp the idea of someone puting their mark on a prefab'd blade that I mounted and someone else sheathed.... it just ain't sittin' right.

Rick
Click to expand...

Thats sort of how I'd feel also
 
What I don't get (and probably never will) is that the actions of charlatans who claim to be knifemakers in some way affect the reputations of people who do things right.

Really? You think that little of your customer base? You think they really believe you should be able to make your custom product for the same price and in the same quantity as the sellers that claim to be makers who buy their stuff from the scrap metal recyclers in Asia? You really think they assume because an $80 crapmascus knife is crap that your $800 damascus knife is crap too?

Personally, I don't think customers are as dumb as some of you seem to think. They may not know the all that it takes to make a great knife, and they may make decisions that you don't agree with, but you don't know all their buying criteria. Maybe that $80 crapmascus knife is a gift for an inlaw they don't like very much. Do you want to spend what you charge for a custom knife on a gift for someone you don't like?

I just wish you folks would stop saying things like "they hurt our reputation" and realize your reputation is built on what you do, not what others do. If someone else chooses to lie to customers, cheat them, and sell crap merchandise, you should rejoice. That just means the customer base for your superior product will grow when they become dissatisfied with the lesser goods. Customers are not stupid... they know when they've been cheated, and they generally know what to do about it.

Of course, there will still be a market for crap product too, so long as there are annoying inlaws you have to buy gifts for.

- Greg
 
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