Dropping the Wegner may be a mistake

B

Bill McWilliams

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
811
Sal,
This knife and it's little brother are possibly the best "sleeper" you have out there.
In my opinion, they are the best of your line.
Granted, there were certain marketing disadvantages with it's start. But those will be compensated by the collateral business you will enjoy (IMO) when these two knives are "discovered".
Please enlighten us as to your plans. I'm already sitting on 3 Wegner Jr's.
Bill
 
Bill,

The way you phrased this makes me believe that you think both Wegners are being discontinued. That is not the case. The full size is being continued and is quite popular. Only the Junior is being discontinued. I have a full size and would like to get a junior. I ordered a G-10 Harpy this morning though so it will have to be a little later.
 
I, too, like the Wegner Jr. but I have to tell you, as a dealer, the knife is a dog in sales and I think we have Tim Wegner and his folks at Bladetech, Inc. to thank for that.

It comes down to the same old debate that has been going off and on through here and other threads. Pricing.

TW and co. seem to be exempt from Spyderco's MAAP policy and consequently have busted the price on these knives. That's good for the ELU
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but, as a result, sales for the rest of us dealers are so bad that we don't reorder them. That that makes it stagnate on the shelves in the warehouse and that gets it dropped from the lineup. Simple.

It makes no difference how "popular" the item is in discussion groups and forums. If sales don't support production then the item goes away. Spyderco can't make them for free.

The full size Wegner retails for $140.00, the Jr. for $115.00. Bladetech advertized them for $99.00 and $79.00, respectively, shipping included, in Gun and Knife magazines and on their website. The rest of us who honor Spyderco's policy had them at a higher price and they didn't sell.

One dealer can't generate enough sales to pay for the production and the rest of us dealers won't carry them because the price has been depressed to below our break point and there isn't enough profit in the sale to support our operation. I haven't ordered any Jr.s since the initial pull when they first came out. Why? Because I still have most of them.

They have since raised their prices in the mag. ads but it doesn't matter. The damage is done. The price has been established by the ad and if a dealer tries to sell higher we are accused of gouging.

Some buyers even figure that if they can sell them that cheap in a magazine ad and include shipping, then we dealers should be able to beat that price since we don't have to pay to ship the knife on an over-the-counter sale. Nope. So, no sales, ergo, no product. This particular golden egg laying goose is kaput.

You notice that I haven't said that they couldn't sell them at those prices. Their website still has them at the busted prices.

It's Wegner's design and he can give it away if he wants. He wants to be exclusive on the knife? That's ok too. Maybe he can keep it alive for awhile longer. I doubt that squeezing out the other dealers will accomplish that though.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a knife...confuse a liberal)
La Mesa, CA
wrightknife@ixpres.com


 
Dennis,

First let me say that I understand your frustration in being forced into a situation where you are "following the rules" and somebody else doens't appear to be doing so.
That said, I think most people who look at Spyderco prices online notice the disclaimers that say something like "these are the lowest prices I can advertise. Call me for even lower ones." I bought my Wegner online but I didn't buy it at blade-tech.com. And I did much better than their advertised price. It is a low margin type of business to be in and I know it is frustrating when you are trying to make a living doing it.

And it really is a fine design/knife.

Gregg
 
Don't misunderstand. I could have taken my prices down too. That I don't is my choice. I know what my profit margin has to be and, unless I decide to unload them, that is what I try to maintain. I could dump them just to get my money back but I'm not that desperate.

I guess what I was trying to do, more than anything else was to illustrate how those practices, when left unchecked, can lead to the demise of a good product.

I really do think the design is a great one and the small size makes for a very nice pocket knife. I'm sorry to see it go. That is what bothers me more than the market competition.

I knew about the competition going in, so if I don't like it I can always find something else to do.

The discontinuing of a fine design because its sales were killed by the market raiders is what frustrates me.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
(Buy a knife...confuse a liberal)
La Mesa, CA
wrightknife@ixpres.com


 
Dennis
You obviously have not read any of my previous posts regarding this subject. I respectfully suggest you research my previous posts and get the facts. (READ MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES). Before you go on line as my judge and jury.

Tim
 
Hi Bill, Sorry to be slow. wanterd to lurk for a while on this one.

Dennis, thanx for the explanations, nicely done. Although we're not sure that the few DD killed the model. It was just at the lower end of the sales spectrum, especially for that size knife which should be quite popular.

Perhaps some of the reason is that the Jr wasn't designed as a Jr. It was merely a scaled down version of the larger design. We learned the hard way many years ago that simply scaling down a model to create a smaller version has it's own problems.

The smaller versions that we make are independent designs simply because though the knife may be smaller, often the hand is not and the dimensions are less than ideal. The smaller hole for example. Even Tim thinks it should have a larger hole, etc. etc.

We still have a fair inventory and should Tim decide to pick up the design as an exclusive, then we'll make the necessary changes to compensate for the "shrinking" as opposed to an idependent design.

The Pro-Grips (formally Pro-Venator) fit the same purpose and size and actually sell much better to the general market ELU (& Bruce). The "Collectors" prefer the Wegner Jr.

Hope that helps.

Tim, glad you could join. Welcome to the real world of the knife business.

sal
 
Sal,

I think you may be right about the problems caused by scaling down the Wegner. The Jr. was my first Spyderco and, as much as I like it, never felt quite right in my hand. It wasn't until I inherited a Worker that I was able to put my finger
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on where the problem lies. Tim has said that he designed the full-size Wegner with a large first finger cut-out to allow for a variety of hand positions. However, when it was scaled down, the cut-out became smaller and will only fit one finger. I find that the position of the cut-out, combined with the position of the thumb hump, force the knife too far forward in my hand so that my little finger is unable to get any purchase on the handle. By comparison, the two+two handle of the Worker and the Harpy allow me to hold the knife closer to the blade and obtain a much more secure grip. Of course the grip on the Native is even better
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. OTOH I have never found the hole to be too small and would leave it as is because it adds to the visual appeal of the knife.

One reason I chose the Wegner Jr. over the Pro-Venator was the plain edge. Would you consider adding a plain edge Pro-Venator (Pro-Grips
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) to the line-up now that the Wegner Jr. is to be dicontinued?

------------------
Take care,
Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.



[This message has been edited by Clay Kesting (edited 29 September 1999).]
 
OK, I have the Wegner Jr (C49), the Native and the Pro-Grip (and at least 4 others, and I don't even own stock in Spyderco).

I love them all, but for its size and construction, the C49 beats them. The added purchase on the Native (I have the BF version) results from the added choil on the blade which moves the hand forward, thus sacrificing edge length. Consider that the Native is longer than the Wegner Jr, but the latter has the longer edge. There are others like me who are anal about stuff like that.

The Pro-Grip is also a very solid knife...I bought it in a moment of weakness and rationalized it as needing a cheap backup for my C49, but before donating it to one of my kids, I noted: 1) it's a lock-back vs liner for the C49 2) has a fixed clip vs removable 3) is thus bulkier 4) blade is AUS-8 vs ATS-34 and lastly, 5) it just does not have the smoothness and heft of the C49.

Both Native and Pro-Grip are knives with their own strengths. Both are economically priced, strong, and the Native is VERY ergonomic while the Pro-Grip, as its name implies, has its funky and effective integral clip...but the Wegner Jr (I now own two) comes the closest still to my idea of a gentleman's knife that means business.
 
Hello,

I lmove my Wegner junior IMHO look like a Gentleman Folder with a lot of "guts"...

The first time I have held it, the thick blade and the weight and the easy opening and closing made me forget all my Sebenza dreams...

Cheers,

JM
 
Clay - We certaily will consider that.

Tim - Some of the answers you were looking for on the C49. This is a very afluent group (at least in knives).

sal
 
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