Dual Liners

Brian_Turner

Brian_Turner

Joined
May 13, 1999
Messages
1,926
It's been stated many times that some folks prefer a dual-lined knife, and won't purchase a single-lined, or nested lock folder.

I'm just curious if anyone has ever actually had a folder snap or bend in the middle of the handle, as opposed to the blade or pivot, where they think that a second liner would have prevented the failure.
 
Hi Brian,

Good question. I can understand dual steel liners in higher-end folders for fit-and-finish and precision blade movement. But with a single liner (or even no liner) on more modest knives, I would be very interested in people's experiences with failures on such knives.

With the knives I see returned to SOG and customers I talk with, I don't recall any failures related to this issue.

------------------
Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives, Inc.

Website: www.sogknives.com
Email: ron@sogknives.com
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Brian_Turner:

I'm just curious if anyone has ever actually had a folder snap or bend in the middle of the handle, as opposed to the blade or pivot, where they think that a second liner would have prevented the failure.</font>
Click to expand...

Note that the issue is not just having the folder snap or bend in the middle. Liner locks in particular are extraordinarily sensitive to the geometry between the lock face and blade tang. Theoretically, the more flex your handle gives, the greater the possibility that your lock will disengage. Of course, this idea that nested liners allow more handle flex is also to some extent theoretical. So I'm not claiming that single-liner and nested-liner handles always have more flex; just that, theoretically, a handle that does have more flex can cause problems.

As I personally don't buy liner locks, I have no strong stand on this issue. But I certainly have no problem buying unlined lockbacks.

Joe

 
My only experience with single liner knives is the Spyderco Wegner, and Wegner Jr. Looking at it bothered me at first because there is more handle on one side of the blade than the other.

I have learned to live with it to the extent that I don't even notice it any more.

I understand Joe's objection to liner locks in general, but I have not eliminated them as a class.

As far as the Wegner(s) go, the knife does not flex. The lock up 100%, every time with out fail, there is no blade wobble in any direction.

If everyone made double liner knives that were as solid as the Wegner is with its single liner, there would a lot fewer complaint threads posted here.


Mike
 
So far I have never had a problem with a single liner knife, althought I admit to giving preference to dual liner knives on occasion. Now that you make me think about, I'm not exactly sure why
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Dark Nemesis

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Crimson Horizon
Nothing but edge baby...
dark.nemesis@home.com
 
I had a knife with a nested leaf lock in G-10 handle scales, and after some moderately hard cutting, the handles had flexed enough to allow the lock bar to scoot across the blade tang and wedge into the gap between the blade and the opposite handle scale. It took a vice and a pair of pliers to get the knife unlocked. I have read reports of at least two people who experienced the same problem, one during a repel on a mountain rescue that resulted in the loss of the knife because the guy said he wasn't going down the rope with an open knife.

A more rigid handle is better when it comes to liner locks.
 
Let's put it this way: I absolutely will not buy single-liner knives. I've watched dual-liner knives flex more than I would like, and there is no way I feel that I can trust a single liner to stay locked.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Maybe I read Brian's post too quickly. I didn't think his concern was addressing liner locks and dual liners, but rather general knife rigidity ("bend or snap in the middle of the handle" versus failure "to the blade or pivot"). I can understand concerns with rigidity and liner locks. My curiosity in posting support of Brian's question was more with, say, Zytel handled lockbacks which do not have either dual or single steel liners. (I corresponded with a customer yesterday on this issue, so I likely read Brian's post from a narrow mindset...did I just call myself "narrow minded"?
smile.gif
).

------------------
Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives, Inc.

Website: www.sogknives.com
Email: ron@sogknives.com
 
I guess if we could stay on topic it would be helpful.

What Brian asked was whether anybody had experienced folder handle failure in the middle of the handle. I would be surprised if anybody has since there are much weaker points on all folders that would fail first.

...so we hijacked his thread to talk about what we thought was really relevent.
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Hey - the topic is dual liners. If you've got issues I didn't raise, no argument from me if you want to raise them yourself!
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Now - maybe I'm just a weak little b*tch, but trying as hard as I can, I can't get the G-10 slabs on my single-lined Wegner, or non-lined (nested leaf) Military or Starmate to flex or torque AT ALL, let alone enough to move the lock. I can't see where a cutting task could do it. What were the knives that flexed doing at the time? You mention "moderately hard cutting". Can you be more specific? And what was the handle slab material?

Second, as regards the Wegner specifically, I can see more rigidity being conveyed by the knife's full length steel backspacer than dual liners would provide.

What I guess I'm saying here is that, IMO, the knife's overall construction has more to consider than the number of liners between the slabs.
 
Before my Spyderco Military was lost in the ocean off the coast of Maui, it had gone through some good use. When I first got the knife, I was a little concerned about the lack of metal liners, but in the year that I had the knife, I didn't have ANY problems with the lock or handles as far as rigidity. For a moderate sized knife that I used for daily chores, it performed great. I wouldn't use it for a pry bar (I'd use a pry-bar).
 
That is, I think, ultimately the point. The real issue should be handle rigidity. Intuitively, it might seem that full double liners will always provide good handle rigidity, and single liners and nested liners will not. In real life, I don't think it's that simple. If I were still buying liner locks, handle rigidity would be a very high priority on my list, but I wouldn't necessarily rule out single and nested liners.

Joe
 
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