Dueling?

D

Damon Inferel

Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
2
Hn... This site is certainly a fair deal more populated than my other one. Only difference in terms of the site would be the other one my discussions are not quite as limited, but hey, would i be here if I had no interest in swords.

I had something of a question in terms of dueling other people. I am well aware that the art of Kendo does permit a dueling fashion, something I am hoping to learn in the near future. However, this is with wooden swords, and fencing is with foils. I, being a little bit of a fan of Highlander (shoot me if you want), have taken an interest in the concept of dueling with something just a trifle more pointy and, well, deadly.

however, with the government the way it is, I should ask if such dueling actions are utterly prohibited in the sense of actual 'blade fighting'. I know that most swords cannot be wielded or brandished in effort to keep hosility and other stuff down, but if the opponent does consent to the possibility of becoming severely harmed, and so does the challenger, so to speak, is an all out 'duel 'til someone's bleeding' optional?

P.S. I do not know anyhting technical about swords, however I am in study. I'm only eighteen, and I can finally do stuff that I like. >^_^<
 
Oh you can do just about anything. It's after that you will pay the piper. Any consent you thought you had will vanish once the injury is apparent. Personal injury, wrongful death on the civil side. Assault, manslaughter, murder on the crimminal side.

There are many organizations (SCA, ARMA, etc.) that will let you flail away with non-lethal hardware (some sturdy enough to cause injury). I suggest you seek them out and avoid being a candidate for a Darwin award and giving swords a bad name. When you're older you'll understand. ;) If you want to discover more about swords please take a look at http://swordforum.com/
 
Ah, yes. Thank you very much for your insight. i am well aware that the law, of course, would come into play should anything happen in the sense of severe injury, and thus i may have to deal with lawsuits and the like. If I, indeed, give swords a bad name, I am sincerely apologetic for it, as i did not mean to insult anything or anyone.

I am well aware of consequences of my actions and I should defer the thought of me being a blade-happy 'cut-my-head-off-I'm-evil' figure. I assure you I have more discipline than that, and a great deal more maturity. While my knowledge of dueling and swords is limited at best, I have principles and morals.

Sorry if the former paragraph digresses too much from the point, I suppose I took something to mean somethign it didn't. ... Meow?
 
Don't worry about an insult. First and formost we don't want someone injured or worse. Also the press and certain folks might seize upon a sword related incident to try and have swords declared some sort of evil weapon and have their availability restricted or banned (ala assault weapons). Swords are great fun and there is a cadre of folks seriously studying/playing with them. Here is another site for you to look at - http://www.thearma.org/
 
I think Loki has given you some worth while options, I would examine them. They should allow you to have the sort of experience you want without the troublesome jail time. The real problem with a sword is that it is meant to be a deadly weapon and chances are that is hard to negate even when you don't intend to do any "serious" harm.

The other problem is that dueling has been illegal since the 19th century and the laws were never repealed. If you don't think some D.A. someplace wouldn't like the publicity it would get him by trying a sensational case where some goof killed a friend in a "duel"...
 
In most states, fighting is illegal (outside of sporting events...)even if both parties agree to the fight. And, should one of the participants be severely injured or killed, the responsibe party could be prosecuted criminally or civilly, or both. (reckless endangerment, for instance.)

There are, of course, various groups which practice with "live" blades and a minimum of protective equipment.
 
We have Los Vegas(etc.) for gambling, we need at least 1 city for dueling...

Maybe Greenland?
 
Some time back someone posted an account of a duel he watched at a German college. I'm pretty sure it was on blade forums. They have rules and wear protective equiptment and IIRC the face is the only valid target. I guess if someone really wants to do this they can enroll in one of those schools.

IMO it would be better to train in fencing, kendo, kenjutsu, SCA, eskrima or another style and not to spar with real weapons. Aslo, if you can help it, don't train with psychos or people with control issues, especially those who like to throw wooden tantos at people's faces during a sword fight.
 
The German "fraternity" duelling has an interesting history. In "By the Sword", the author devotes an entire chapter to the practice.

It's gone through various periods of being banned, being allowed, being banned, and so forth. At present, as I recall, the authorities are "looking the other way."

For quite some time, having a proper "Heidelburg duelling scar" was a prerequisite to advancement in German society.
 
Until you get stabbed. I'm only 22, so I know where you are coming from. My parents were quite strict when I was growing up, so I was always looking to get into trouble. My friends and I bought some bokkens and foils and started having at it, and after a while of studying manuals and praticing we could duel with something that resembled ability. We always took care to wear PPE and everything was fine, until I took a hard lung to the heart and the foil broke and lodged its self in my shoulder. I got lucky. I think it went in about 3 inches and didn't seem to hit anything major. I didn't go to the hospital and after the bleeding stopped I put on a friends shirt and went home. I probably came close to dying that day, and I was using "fake" weapons. I'm not trying to preach I just thought I would warn you to think things through. If my friends and I had contacted the local SCA, they would have not only have taught us to use the swords, they would have encouraged their use! Oh yeah, it was two months after my 18th birthday when it happened. Some of the older forumites might remember me poking around asking questions here and elsewhere. Be safe and have fun.

- D

P.S. There was this older man at my church who was from South Africa, before that he had lived in Germany. He had these thin scars on the sides of his face and I never asked him how they got there. Years later I read "By The Sword", and it made me wonder...
 
Stick with ARMA, if you must. SCA will teach how to make some nifty homemade armor and flail away at an opponent, but their skills are moderate at best and, at worst, you'll be learning a rickety, unsound fighting technique.

If it's just the idea of danger and risk that has you jazzed, think about this - a Soviet fencer was put into a coma, and eventually removed from life support, because a broken foil penetrated his mask, his scalp, his skull, and then his brain when his rather powerful lunge was met with an even more powerful fleche' attack made by his West German opponent.

I've seen a broken sabre go THROUGH a mask bib and stop just short of skewering a friend's trachea. If you're keen to do something dangerous and martial, train hard at fencing or just go to a dojo, put the gloves on and learn to spar. A few broken noses or ribs may help moderate your bloodlust a bit.
 
Do you mean you want to duel with bad blood and anger or just sword fight?
Fighting with live baldes is hazardous to your health.

Fencing can teach you footwork sword technique and quite usable sword fighting skills.
In college I took a fencing class. I was not the best fencer but I had the most warrior spirit.
For the final we had to fight everyone in the class. I swept everyone, the last two fencers were pretty good but could not deal with sheer ferocity.
After my last match the guy spat at me "You're vicious!". "Yup" I said "I love this stuff."
If I'd stayed classical he would definitely have outscored me but they didn't teach us any saber and my style was pretty much slash and hack, and jab.
It would have been pretty dangerous if they'd tried to match me force on force.
Never really got to develop much technique but I had a blast.
With a serious aggressive opponent fencing can be very dangerous.

I remember the thread about the German fencing fraternities. That was a gem,
The scar on the face is known as a Schwiss (sp). And shows you've paid your dues. Not sure how often these are accompanied by an eyepatch but its a real danger and can really change your outlook on life.

For fun with swordfighting with friends its hard to beat those bamboo Shinai.
They are made of four strips of bamboo tied loosly together with a leather handle and tip. And can cause some painfull abrasions but are unlikely to seriously injure you.
I was able to clean up the mouthy little bro in combat but the girlfriend was a different story. Damn girl is all offense and totally unpredictable.
I was backing and blocking narrow angle attacks trying to tell her "dont swing at the hands, dont hit the OWW FUxx!!"
She put a full force blow across my middle finger and I think fractured it radially. Then she would not stop laughing!

So start slow, set up some ground rules and if your going hard some protective gear would be an excellent idea.
 
@MC Chan:

It is called "Schmiss" (I oughta know, it's my mothertounge)and many of those were not gained by means of a duel, but faked using self-inflicted cuts with a razor, because this was safer by far.

Ookami
 
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