Dumb question about sharpening

Wilco

Wilco

Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
1,204
Hey all,

I have a basic spiderco sharpmaker, and am having trouble getting my Emerson Commander and cr sebenza sharp. I'm following the directions (grey stick flat, grey edge, then white stick flat, white edge, 20 times each side) and it seems like my blades are even more dull. I can bring them across my arm, and they don't even cut me. Any suggestions?
 
Ya, stop listening to the directions!

Here's what you'll do instead. Take your Sebenza, and put some black Sharpie marker on the edge. Put the gray stones in the 30-degree slots. Now take 10 swipes on each side, and look back at the edge again. Chances are, the marker is worn away up at the top of the edge, but remains at the bottom of the edge -- this is a graphic illustration of the fact that you're not really sharpening yet, just removing metal to get to that point. Now, spend a few minutes working just one side of the knife, then switch and work the other side of the knife. You should be able to visually check the magic marker, and see that you're slowly getting closer and closer to the edge.

Now, since this is your first time, once you start getting close to the edge (i.e., most of the magic marker is worn away), you may want to switch the stones to the 40-degree slots. Once you do that, progress will be much quicker. What you want to do is work just one side of the knife until a burr forms along the entire edge on the opposite side. At that point, the magic marker will be all worn away, and the burr is an indication that you've finally reached the very edge. When you sharpen all the way to the very edge, it becomes so thin that it bends over -- this is the burr, and you can feel it with your thumb along the opposite side of the blade.

Now, switch blade sides and repeat -- just sharpen that side only until the magic marker is completely gone and you can feel a burr along the entire opposite side.

Okay, now that you've raised a burr on both sides, you can start doing what the Sharpmaker video tells you to -- do one stroke on one side, then switch sides for the next stroke. Do these smooth, and progressively lighten up on the pressure. Switch to the white fine stones and repeat, again progressively lightening up on the pressure. We're keeping a light touch because what we're doing now is trying to grind the burr off -- too much pressure and it keeps re-forming.

When you're happy with the results, here's the last step. Tilt the spine of the blade slightly towards the inside of the V stones, so that the angle is raised just a few degrees. Take one stroke down, using almost no pressure, just the weight of the knife. Switch to the other stone and repeat. This will hopefully finish off the burr. If it doesn't, strop it on some leather or your jeans.

Joe
 
Heh, I've been very slow onthe draw lately, every time I see a question I want to respond to, 15 guys have already given him the right answer. So when I saw this one I jumped on it :)
 
That's okay your response was much more thorough than mine anyway. This one finger typing is killer on speed.
 
Something else you need to do too.

Get yourself a pencil eraser, just the ordinary large one from the supermarket or wherever.

After about every 15 or 20 strokes, take the rod out and rub it with the eraser, this will remove much of the built up metal. You will feel them cutting better after you do this. Softer metals, (not your sebbie), will deposit more metal quickly so you'll need to "erase" it more often.
 
Joe, just wondering whether he might be money ahead to reprofile those blades with something other than the 204, then go to the 204. I often use a dowel with coarse (~100 grit) sandpaper glued to it clamped in a vise at ~17° for this chore, then switch to the 204 when the scratch marks go to the edge of the blade.

BTW, isn't it edge first, then flat, for the gray and the white sticks? That might be part of your problem, Wilco.
 
UHH STOP RIGHT THERE!
The commander is a chisel ground, IIRC. One side is sharpened, the other is flat. Look on emerson's site for details on how to sharpen that. You wont need the diamond rod he tells you to use, just use the corner of a rod
 
Thanks for the input guys....my problem that i see, is that my sharpmaker only has two holes, and the rods are at a fixed angle....i can't change to X angle.....Should i get a different sharpening system?

thanks!
 
Its fine. Just reprofile down to that angle. With the commander, you need to double the angle (make the blade parallel to the opposite rod) since instead of 2 converging angles, its one big single angle
 
The Sharpmaker is a fine, easy-to-use system. You've figured out the problem. I agree with Garageboy -- just re-profile to match the Sharpmaker's angles. The first time you sharpen a knife, you'll have to re-profile, and that will take a little while longer than usual. After that, you're good-to-go. Garageboy is also correct that the Commander's grind means you can't follow my directions, which is why I specified using the Sebenza.

GRMike is also correct that for that first time you re-profile, you might want something a bit more aggressive than that grey stone. I sometimes just wrap a bit of coarse sandpaper around the grey stone, say <100 grit, and move the sandpaper as it wears smooth. This will re-profile your knife much more quickly. Also note that GRMIke is correct that it should be edge then flat, not the other way around. When you're using the edge of the stone, there's a lot more pressure on the edge of the blade, which can cause irregularities, so you follow up with the flats to smooth things out.

Joe
 
with the commander at chisel edge of 30deg and the sharpmaker's setting of 15/20deg, it's gonna take you a long while to reprofile that blade. And a chisel edge of 20deg will make the bevel go up a long way, which may not look nice on the commander. by experience. You'll want to keep the commander at 30 or 25 deg.
 
Wilco said:
Thanks for the input guys....my problem that i see, is that my sharpmaker only has two holes, and the rods are at a fixed angle....i can't change to X angle.....Should i get a different sharpening system?

thanks!
Click to expand...


Ummmmm.. which Sharpmaker do you have, the 204? It should have two sets of holes, one pair will angle the rods at 40 deg. and the other pair angle them at 30 deg. There is also one in the end that angles one rod to 12 deg. for scissors.

If you don't have the 204, get it, trust me.
 
Not sure which model, but it only has one set of wholes.....it must be the "cheaper" version..... I'll order a new one today. Thanks everyone for your help!

w
 
Don't thin the Commander edge too much. If you make a 20 degree edge (40 degree holes) , it may be too thin and chip under use. Just keep it at the factory edge and run the corner of the stone free hand
 
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