Dust collector setup & how much oomph should have?

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I inherited a Jet dust collector not long ago. Don't know any of the specifics. It's one of these ones with two bags. I'm mainly using it for Micarta, CF, stuff that isn't sparky and hot. It has like a 3-4 inch hose on it, but it doesn't seem to collect everything, so my questions:

1) What's the best setup for a bench grinder? I assume I'd want to put the hose right under the grinding wheel. Best way to attach it, and should I use something to widen the hose's effective opening? Someone mentioned a bleach bottle... best way to attach the hose to whatever I use to widen it?

2) How much "oomph" should my system have? It seems to pull a decent amount of air into it, but nothing shocking. Less than a regular vacuum cleaner, for sure. Does this mean I need to change a filter or empty a bag or something, or are these things just not that high-powered?

Any other hints (other than a spark reducer if using for steel and also not to use PVC for anything.?
 
Steve,

FWIW I just bought and am setting up a 4" portable job from Grizzly. Dang that thing moves a bunch of air (500 CFM I think). Just putting the hose under the business end of the grinder sucks about everything I can produce.

I also bought a 2.5" hose so I can use it like a vacuum. That doesn't suck, so to speak. It's awful actually. Using the 4" as a vacuum works very well. It seems that these dust collectors are designed to move air, rather than create a vacuum. I thought necking down the opening would increase the air speed, but had just the opposite effect.

All that to say with a 4" opening it should suck like crazy. Is there a restriction in the pipe? Is it reduced in size anywhere? Is the pipe run a long distance? Is the inside of the bag all yucky like?

Steve
 
Chiro75 said:
1) What's the best setup for a bench grinder? I assume I'd want to put the hose right under the grinding wheel. Best way to attach it, and should I use something to widen the hose's effective opening? Someone mentioned a bleach bottle... best way to attach the hose to whatever I use to widen it?
See the Shop Vac metal dust catching funnel from Jeff Higgins here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291563

Note that he only turns the vacuum on after he's done grinding. The funnel is just to corral the dust as he's working.

(edited to add) To attach a bleach bottle, you could use duct tape, hose clamps, pop rivets with washers, machine screws, or some combo of the above, depending on what materials and thicknesses you were trying to join.
2) How much "oomph" should my system have? It seems to pull a decent amount of air into it, but nothing shocking. Less than a regular vacuum cleaner, for sure. Does this mean I need to change a filter or empty a bag or something, or are these things just not that high-powered?
FWIW, dust collectors and Shop-Vac's operate on a couple of different principles. The dust collector moves a lot of air rather slowly through a fat hose to transport relatively light fluffy particles. A Shop-Vac moves air relatively fast through a smaller hose to transport potentially heavier/denser particles or even liquids.

If you want to suck up hot sparks, put a water-entrapment filter between the grinder and the vacuum source. That filter runs the pipe/hose bearing the hot particles into a container partially filled with water. The pipe outlet is under the water level and the vacuum outlet is at the top of the container. As the vacuum sucks air through the pipe, bubbling it up through the water, the hot metal particles will remain in the water. Note that this places a strain on the vacuum source and means that your vacuum has to be stronger than if the water filter wasn't in the system. It's simpler to do as Higgy does and not suck up the metal dust until you're done grinding.

When you say your dust collector (DC) has two bags, I assume you mean an upper bag held in place directly over the lower bag by an expandable metal band that has a cinch-toggle on it to clamp it in place. In any case, on DC's the upper bag is the filter bag that the air passes through and the particles of dust get stopped by. The lower bag is the collector bag that the dust particles fall down into either by the vortex action of the collector or when the DC is turned off. You only toss out the lower bag, when it gets full, and the upper bag remains in place.

Re: lack of vacuum power from your DC. Your upper filter bag could be dirty enough to impede airflow through it. If so there are a few things you can do to remedy the situation:
1. with the DC turned off, simply shake/strike the upper bag to knock off accumulated dust particles that may have impacted themselves into the fabric of the bag.
2. take the upper bag off, turn it inside-out, and spray it clean with a garden hose or pressure washer. If that doesn't get it clean enough, I suppose you could throw it in the washing machine. If you're married, don't tell your wife. ;)
3. replace the bag (can be expensive). There are plenty of replacement bag vendors on the web, with bags down to 1-micron mesh to stop even very fine particles. However with "weekend warrior" levels of use, the upper bag may well never need replacing.

BTW, what HP is the motor on your Jet or what model is it? Most home shop DC's run in the 1 HP to about 3 HP range.

Any other hints (other than a spark reducer if using for steel and also not to use PVC for anything.?
Good thought not to use plastic for your DC hose. Or, if you do, be sure to ground it thoroughly to avoid dust explosions.
 
I'll have to mess around with it a bit to answer your questions. Do these things even have filters, or are the bags the filters? It gives enough suction that it sucked a little knife (2.5" long overall) into it off my bench, but it stopped at the bend in the tube. The tube is probably 10 feet long or so...whatever came with it. It definitely sucks up a ton of dust, and I use it to vacuum wood chips and that sort of thing, too, so it definitely works, but I want to widen it's area to include more of my grinding space and to do a better job with when I'm hand filing. I've seen the boxes under grinders. Should I just do that? Most of what I do is hand filing, so it's not a huge deal to get it set up for the grinder, really.
 
As you correctly surmised, the upper bag IS the filter. And if it sucked a knife off your bench, it has plenty of airflow!! :eek:

To widen the area over which it draws vacuum, you can make a shroud on whatever equipment or bench you want to use it with. Quick & dirty is a cardboard box with a hole in the back where the hose gets stuck in and fastened (duct tape!! :D ). However, cardboard is probably not a good material to use around hot sparks. ;) Fancier and more permanent is a wooden or metal box screwed to your bench or otherwise fastened onto the equipment it is supposed to keep clean.

Note that a change in the shroud's orientation, as well as its distance, relative to the source of the dust can make a big difference in the efficiency of the DC's collecting. Remember, gravity makes placing the dust catcher/sucker UNDER the grinder or filing location good. However, if the motion of the equipment throws the sparks somewhere else, a more enclosing shroud may be in order.
 
See the Shop Vac metal dust catching funnel from Jeff Higgins here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=291563

Very cool....if you know how to/have equipment to weld stuff, which I don't. :(

When you say your dust collector (DC) has two bags, I assume you mean an upper bag held in place directly over the lower bag by an expandable metal band that has a cinch-toggle on it to clamp it in place.
Yep.

BTW, what HP is the motor on your Jet or what model is it? Most home shop DC's run in the 1 HP to about 3 HP range.
No idea. How can I tell?
 
To find the voltage, amperage, and possibly the HP of the electric motor, there is (supposed to be) a label on the motor housing with that info. The Jet model number may be near the motor location on a sticker along with the unit's serial number or it may be emblazoned on the frame of the DC as part of the paint job.
 
Sando said:
Steve,

FWIW I just bought and am setting up a 4" portable job from Grizzly. Dang that thing moves a bunch of air (500 CFM I think). Just putting the hose under the business end of the grinder sucks about everything I can produce.

I also bought a 2.5" hose so I can use it like a vacuum. That doesn't suck, so to speak. It's awful actually. Using the 4" as a vacuum works very well. It seems that these dust collectors are designed to move air, rather than create a vacuum. I thought necking down the opening would increase the air speed, but had just the opposite effect.

All that to say with a 4" opening it should suck like crazy. Is there a restriction in the pipe? Is it reduced in size anywhere? Is the pipe run a long distance? Is the inside of the bag all yucky like?

Steve

If you were *blowing* air decreasing the pipe size would speed up the air flow. *Sucking* air, decreasing the pipe size simply makes it harder to suck. Try breathing through a long straw compared to a hose. When you suck, you are relying on outside air pressure to push the air in. The fan is simply getting air out of the way so to speak.
 
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