Dust Collectors

Bigjohn

Bigjohn

Joined
Sep 30, 2002
Messages
1,382
I'm building a new shop, roof is finally on and Its time to start thinking about floor plan and machine placement N...etc. and I want to get a dust collector.....I'm looking for recommendations as to what type, company etc.

I'm finding various brands from 100 bucks to many thousands..... any advice or opinions from makers or machinists would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Bigjohn
 
Click the little triangle at the bottom and get a Mod to move this to shop talk. probably get better results.
There are several older threads about dust collection.
 
John,

A lot is going to depend on what you want to collect wood dust? size of your shop and number of drops CFM ect... I have put two systems in my shop mainly for wood working machines and I am by no means an expert. After doing a lot of research and some trial and error here are few things that I can offer. One, your ahead of the curve by planning before you build your shop. Use the biggest and smoothest piping you can. I went from flexible tubing to 4" PVC and noticed an immediate improvement. Any bends you need to have make them as gradual as possible instead of a 90 degrees fitting use two 45's. Get a remote control this will pay for itself! I can't emphasize this point enough make sure you install a pre collector ahead of your main collector this will keep 95% of the dust out of the main collector. A cyclone unit typically works best. Any questions shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can help
 
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Thanks guys. I will hit the triangle and get this moved.

I am considering the grizzly, jet, shop fox, and Baileigh for the devices.

bigjohn
 
Bigjohn said:
Thanks guys. I will hit the triangle and get this moved.

I am considering the grizzly, jet, shop fox, and Baileigh for the devices.

bigjohn
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The Jet is top notch I have a few pieces of their equipment another consideration may be Penn State Industries.
 
The collectors you mention are fine for wood and other non-metallic materials but, you do not want to be mixing steel grinding in with that. If you are intending to collect steel dust as well, the most economical setup I've seen is using two Harbor Freight collectors and switching between them. This was in a Master Smith's shop who has been making for over 25 years. He had the non-metallic collection set up normally but on the steel dust collector, he inserted a metal barrel in the bottom and used a large round sheetmetal duct wrapped around it instead of the usual plastic collection bag. The system worked well but you have to remember to switch over. Also, he doesn't use exotics like titanium or zirconium; I would not want to collect zirc in any dust collector.

Bob
 
RangerBobTX said:
The collectors you mention are fine for wood and other non-metallic materials but, you do not want to be mixing steel grinding in with that. If you are intending to collect steel dust as well, the most economical setup I've seen is using two Harbor Freight collectors and switching between them. This was in a Master Smith's shop who has been making for over 25 years. He had the non-metallic collection set up normally but on the steel dust collector, he inserted a metal barrel in the bottom and used a large round sheetmetal duct wrapped around it instead of the usual plastic collection bag. The system worked well but you have to remember to switch over. Also, he doesn't use exotics like titanium or zirconium; I would not want to collect zirc in any dust collector.

Bob
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Good point on metal extraction Ranger Bob, I would imagine a potential hazard in the making mixing the two. I have not had any experience with metal extraction since I only use a belt grinder and send them to the water bucket.
 
When I went to Brett's shop to pick up my Esteem Grinder I talked with him about dust collection. He uses a ceiling mounted air filter to keep things from spreading around, but uses (or at least was a year ago), a gravity type system.

I ended up making a gravity system for when I'm grinding metal. It's a large vent hood that I inverted. It's connected to a 4" duct that drops straight into a bucket with some strong magnets in it. The bucket is on rollers so it's easy to move and position where it needs to be. I still get a little metal dust around the grinder, but it's easily taken care of. When I built the shop I put a ceiling outlet in for a ceiling mounted filter but haven't felt the need to add one yet. When I am grinding things other than metal, like G10, Micarta, wood, etc. I use a system I put together using a Dust Deputy, a bucket and a shop vac. It works great. Having the two systems may seem like a bit of a pain, but it's really pretty easy to go between the two and I don't have to worry about a hot spark from metal igniting a collector with wood or other dust in it. I have heard of fires in ductwork that is used for both metal and other materials, which is why my systems don't share any components.

I've thought about adding a baffle system to the bucket for metal collection so I could hook a small shop vac to it to generate a little suction, but so far things have remained neat enough without doing that.
 
The metal dust collectors are finally going down in price. Competition has helped. I now collect with a metal cyclone (Dust Deputy) and send outside after the vacuum.
Frank
 
Bigjohn said:
Never heard of Penn state industries I will check them out.

thanks
Click to expand...

i've got a Penn state that I picked up on CL for $150

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I use a foot pedal switch to turn it on and off, position the foot switch on the floor next to where your grinder is.

since these pics I have sheet metal ducting going into the buckets which have covers on top.

4B60DC71-9BAD-471F-AEAB-C065EEF28E79_zpsmggy5dje.jpg
 
Patrice and Hsc3 thanks so much for the pics. It really helps and its always cool to see inside the madness of another makers domain.
I currently have my shop pretty much in storage as I am building a dedicated 40 x 30 shop. Out the back door will be a separate room that will house the air compressor and dust collector.
You all confirmed a collector that separates the hot metal or sparks into a bucket or canister, and lighter materials go to the bag assembly.

I'm leaning towards a stand up system that I can operate remotely or through well placed switches in the grinding room and those prices can get up there pretty quick.

I'll post pics when we get closer to a finished building. In the mean time thanks so much for the information, it does help.

Bigjohn
 
The best resource for general info on dust collection is Bill Pentz's website. He repeats himself a bit, and it is mostly about collecting wood dust, but metal dust is mentioned a little as well. Metal dust requires a higher air velocity to keep suspended than wood, which translates into a bit more Hp required to keep the dust from settling out in the ducts. We have not installed dust collection in the metal working part of the shop yet, but I've put in a lot of systems in the woodworking area over the years and learned a few things the hard way.

Just my opinion based on experience, but...I wouldn't bother with a dust collection system that didn't have a cyclone before the fan, and I would never go back to filter bags. The fine dust just goes right through, even with the "best quality" American made custom bags. I would not install anything less than MERV 15 cartridge filters.

We have cyclone dust collectors in the shop made by Woodsucker, Oneida, Grizzly, and Penn State. All have been retrofitted with MERV 15 cartridge filters having at least 300 sq. ft. of filter material per 1000 CFM The best "bang for the buck" is Penn State, if you don't mind a well designed import. Their cyclone systems come with MERV 15 filters. The Grizzly cyclone seems to be be a little more efficient at separation, but the less said about the filter that came with that system, the better. Clearvue probably has the most efficient cyclone design, but I'm leery of a plastic cyclone, I've broken PETG, and I would not recommend it for abrasive grinder swarf. And the Clearvue systems are not inexpensive, although compared to something like Torit... Oneida is OK, and they now offer MERV 16 filter cartridges with their systems, but also not inexpensive...Woodsucker is out of business, sadly, the collectors are built like tanks and very well designed for as inexpensive as they were at the time.
 
Thanks Mahoney, I am defiantly looking at Cyclone types. Thank you for explaining what the Horse power is needed for. I am going to set up a separate grinding room and it will be piped with metal to carry the metal dust as well as handle material. I guess since I'm building a small addition on the back of my shop specifically to house the Air compressor and the dust collector I will be somewhat insulated from any filtration spill over. I will check out the web site you mentioned and now I have a filtration target of Marv 15 I'm picking up speed.

Thanks

Bigjohn
 
If your handle/wood dust will be using the same ductwork as metal be aware there are stories of wood dust being ignited by hot metal in ductwork. A fan pulling air through a system can behave like a big bellows when turning a little glowing ember into a big flame, and some dusts, in the right concentration can become explosive. I would want at least well placed dampers so that air from both sides could be shut off.

I have built things like multi tenant commercial buildings. Ducts transitioning spaces and fire walls are required to have fire dampers. They are expensive but I'm sure something similar could be rigged up for a shop that would seal off a duct.
 
Like Drysideshooter said, combining wood and metal dust in the same system is a very bad idea. There really is no way to do it safely 100% of the time. Even mixed metal dust can be a problem...aluminium and steel anyone?

If you are putting your dust collector outside the shop, venting the air that comes off the fan from the cyclone straight to the outdoors instead of using a filter is an option, assuming 1, the air does not come straight back into the shop through a window, etc., 2, that you don't mind losing the heated/cooled air and 3, that the neighbors don't mind the dust.

If you are planning to return the filtered air back to the shop, a lot of noise will come through the vent with it. You might be just as well off putting a good muffler on the outflow of your dust collector and leaving it in the shop.
 
Patrice.... what is that little vertical sander (cylinder/drum?) sander in picture #4? Who makes them and where did you get it? Also, I see a lot of you younger guys wearing (apparently) thin rubber gloves to do your grinding etc. what are they and, where do you get them as well?
 
Thanks Guys, the design I had in mind puts the Grinding room at the back of the building. GO out the back door into a separate room that will house the Air Compressor and Dust Collector. The dust equipment will not return filtered air into the shop. It is only to remove and collect it outside of the shop.

But you are correct routine cleaning the apparatus is tantamount to the safety of the whole operation. After all the brain damage I'm suffering to build the shop it would really piss me off if I let it burn down.

Thanks guys. I'm going to try to make a decision today to get a machine ordered.
Thanks to you guys I learned that horsepower matters, and that some kind or separator is necessary to promote the safety and the convenience and to keep safety in the shop.

I really appreciate the help.
When we get a little closer to completion I will post shop pics. Right now the building is just a stick shell, wiring has just started.
Bigjohn
 
Big John, do yourself a favor and google Clear Vue cyclones, and read what you can find on the designer Bill Pentz, I have two of their mini cyclones, and the simply do an awesome job of separating dust and any bigger chunks as well BEFORE they get to your vacuum--When I can upgrade my shop collection system you can bet it will be with a clear vue system.
 
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