Dye vs. oil

Milt

Milt

Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
260
Hi all. I generally dye my sheaths, then use tankote to give them sheen. I have been using Fiebings professional dyes. They get rather stiff. However, the leather will stay nice and soft with just neatsfoot oil. I like this for fillet knife sheaths as the knives slide in and out so nice. But, they do not get dark enough- they stay natural looking.

Is there an oil that will darken the leather. I used to use Nor-V-gen on my leather boots and they got very dark. But, I have not been able to find it lately.

I have tried dyeing, then applying neatsfoot oil, but they still get pretty stiff, but not as stiff.


Milt
 
I used the regular Feibings dye in the past, and have changed to the Professional dyes and I have noticed that the leather ends up slightly softer than the cheaper dye.

How are you drying the leather after dyeing? The humidity in your house can make quite a difference on your leather. It might be that the sheaths are over drying. I have found that applying oil with the leather slightly damp will help the oil to penetrate and keep the leather soft. At first I didnt think it would work. You know the whole oil and water thing. But so far its been working well.

Before I moved to my current shop, my previous place was extremely dry. I believe it was because of the electric heaters. Nearly everything would over dry. I used to have to place the sheath in a box that was partially closed to slow the drying and let it sit overnight. If I wasn't careful some items would dry up to the point that they were useless and I had to start over.

My current shop is in a basement, and my sheaths wouldnt even dry overnight because of the higher humidity of the environment. So I started using a "dry box". All I use is a large tote, a really small space heater, and a dish rack. I place the sheath on the dish rack and close the lid with about an 1" of space to vent out of the top. I can dry out a sheath within 20 minutes after dyeing. Note that I will cut the sheath parts out, and then dye everything before I assemble them. If you time the process out correctly, the leather returns very close to its natural state. I have been using this dry box nearly 3 times a day through out a sheath building process. Going from drying the leather after dyeing, then after wet molding, then after I oil and wax. The heat from the dry box helps the oil to penetrate the leather fibers. It also works very well to dry the wax treatment, and then you can buff it out to a nice shine. All I use is a 50/50 mix of beeswax and neatsfoot oil.

This dry box has become such an instrumental part of my sheath building that I am building a cabinet specific for this drying process. Complete with a digital timer,temp/humidity monitor, high/low heat, and a thermostat controlled heater that will turn off while keeping the fan going to keep the air moving.

Anyways, I do suggest using a dry box. You can more closely monitor the drying process. Maybe what would work is to dry the sheath about 3/4 of the way, apply oil, then put it in the dry box so the heat helps the oil to penetrate better.
 
I agree with Goose, the pro oil dye is much less prone to stiffening the leather. The standard pro dye is mostly an alcohol base and has that drying effect.

The one issue with the pro oil dye is it does tend to take more applications, especially on the darker colors. It can take up to three applications for me to get the black dark enough for my taste. But well worth it for less headaches, no powdery residue and no stiff leather.

I did read an article by Stohlman where he used mineral oil in conjunction with the dye to achieve better penetration and even dye coloration, I would suspect that it would have a counter effect on the hardening of the leather as well.
 
If you are going to use oil any way. I recommend oiling first and then dying per Dwayne's comment a la Al Stohlman. It seems to me that Black seems to be the color that will stiffen the leather the most. Professional Oil Dye does not contain any oil; I don't know how they came up with that name. This is one of the reasons I buy vat dyed leathers from the tannery. Wicket and Craig and RJF Leather both offer fine leathers that are vat dyed, they tool and oil nicely and the use of dye is eliminated except for use on the edges.

Paul
 
Pro oil dye is one of those mysteries that I've never been able to get answers to from the factory or the reps.

It does act like an oil in that it takes a long time to "cure" properly. Something in the dye is retarding the process, just like oil would.

Ancient Chinese Secret :p

I really wish I could afford the vat dyed leather, but several sides at one time just isn't feasible for me and be able to pay the bills. Someday I will get there. :)
 
I hear you, Dwayne, but the price per square foot of vat dyed vs. just plain russet is not all that much to begin with. When you also calculate the fact that you will be using MUCH less dye and the price of dye today plus the extra man hours gained by not having to dye in the first place surely does tend to make that price differential a lot less significant. (In fact when you consider those factors, it's probably cheaper!)

I started using the vat dyed stuff one color at a time starting by adding chestnut, and when I realized how much easier it was than dying, I bought black and finally, ended up adding brown to the stable. This was over a three or four month period. I'm very fortunate to have enough on going volume that a 6 or 8 side order is not all that much in the in and out flow of inventory. As you well know my average turn around time from order to mail out is 48 hours OR LESS, and I think the vat leathers contribute highly to me being able to do that........well, that and the beautiful machinery;):D

Paul
 
The way that supply prices are going, one step taken out of the equation is looking very good my friend. I'll have to take the "one step at a time" track as well.
 
Yep as Paul noted The Oil Dye does not have any oil in it - per Fiebings it is an improved version of the standard spirit dye and the MSDS bears this out - the differences are in some of the thinners used in the mix.

IMO the reason for the oil dye moniker is back in the day many of us made our own oil due by adding oil to the standard dyes which improved penetration. One caveat with using oil before dying - you MUST use a GOOD sealer or otherwise rub off will continue for years - as the oil evaporates it lifts the dye pigments (the source of the rub off) and moves them to the surface causing rub off. Weaver does make a brown colorant that can be added to oil that will not rub off even without a sealer (of course even oil can cause stains when it does not dry properly - the old George Lawrence holster company used such a reddish brown colored oil that was infamous for discoloring clothes until it balanced out - it gave a great color but.........
 
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