E-Tool versus Kukri

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
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I just read in American Survival Guide how a Cold Steel Special Forces Shovel beat a kukri at chopping.

The guy just stated that, no info as to how or anything...

The kukri he used was a Indian Army Kukri, or Indian Miitary Kukri, somthing like that, anyway I thought that might be the reason why.....

The kukri had a leather wrapped handle.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Were they using the back of the Khukuri to chop with? (just kidding). To say that something is a Khuk, does not mean that it really is one in functionality. You can sit in your garage with a Ford emblem on you for the next 20 years, and you still won't be a car...


Rob

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'He's losin' it... (Words spoken about me by a visitor seeing me with my Khuk!)
Lucky for them I'm not...
 
First I want to see this "e-tool". I know that a lot of times in trench warfare they would sharpen the edges of shovels and use them to hack apart the enemy, being much less likely to get stuck than a bayonet.

Second even by the remote possibility that it can out chop a kukhri( which I guess they must have been using a small, light, dull one) It could never have the soul or spirit if you will, of a khukri.

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"Clear a path for the Kukhri or it will clear one for itself"
 
That is not the first such report I have seen. Randall and others also said that small hatchets and machetes will outchop khukuris which are obviously not made to chop wood. I can also outrun a car if you don't bother to start it.

I ordered one of those CS shovels awhile ago as the shipping on the Bushman was almost its price. Anyway, I can't see it outchopping an AK in any respect except maybe light brush cutting as the profile is slimmer.

Speaking of khukuris and bad impressions. I gave a cheap tourist khukuri to a the same guy who I gave the Villager to awhile back. It came with no edge on it, the blade was actually left about a mm thick. I sharpened it roughly on a belt sander. He bent it while sitting down by jamming into the drawer of a desk and pushing down on it. It didn't even require enough force to deform the wood let along break the drawer guides.

That khukuri would probably be outchopped by the CS shovel as it is very likely to come apart in multiple pieces when it is used. Using that to judge khukuris in general is not that sensible though. It would be similar to taking a 420-J2 wall hanger bowie and after it got mangled using its abilities to describe the performance of custom bowies like the 5160 ones Allen Blade makes as they are both bowies.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-09-2000).]
 
Cliff,

Having read your incredibly thorough and brutal knife tests (and many posts), I have absolute confidence in your opinions. Just out of khuk nut curiousity, do you think you'll ever put the CS-tool in a test against any khuks--maybe against other weapon/tools?

Rob
 
Having read a lot of your reviews Cliff I think that it would be great to see a review. Put the E-tool up against an HI 18" AK. Sounds fair to me.

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"Clear a path for the Kukhri or it will clear one for itself"
 
Yes, once I get the shovel I intend to look at the performance against a khukuri in several aspects.

-Cliff
 
Hi All,
Well, I've got both. Cliff is right, it depends upon the application. I sharpened my CS shovel even sharper than it came on one side. I use it for cutting roots and clearing paths during Deer season. As a weapon this thing is one mean mutha. How does it compare to a "real" khukuri??????
The shovel does better on springy stuff, it's kinda like a short bladed machete. And we already know how they stack up against a Khukuri.
Dan
 
I pretty much figured that the quality of the kukhri had something to do with the results.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
I have the CS shovel. It does not chop up 2x4's as well as a decent khukuri. Penetration with the shovel was rather poor probably because of the weight distribution. Also, I thought it vibrated excessively.

The CS shovel is a better shovel than any khukhuri.

As a weapon the CS shovel is awesome and may be as good as most working khukuri's.

Will
 
:
I used to have one of "those" kukris. I bought mine from a well known Cutlery dealer that has a catolog full of things from India. This kukri is the one "made by the government official supply" and had the "papers" too go with it. and it was about a 1/4" thick or a tad more and was of the panna buta style. When I got it I wasn't about to try and file an edge on it. The edge was about 0.050" thick!! I took it too work and used a belt sander. I knew that it still wasn't a real khukuri because I had seen one when I was a young man and the one I saw was very thick like the HI khukuri's.

I also have a CS LTC kukri that is like a bent machete. I like it for softer springy stuff as I feel it beats out my machete on that type of material. I also used it in place of the other one I had simply because it done a better job.

I wouldn't mind having one of the shovels though. It may be better than the LTC.
smile.gif


As far as beating a "Real" khukuri, it would depend on what was being cut.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"Know your own bone, gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it again."

'Thoreau'

Khukuri FAQ
 
Marion the quality is a significant influence but the technique is just as or probably even more so. What I like about the traditional khukuri design is how all the elements form a coherent package. You can take any aspect and starting from it the whole package will evolve to suit that.

For example to start off you want a knife that chops well. This means two things (a) the penetration is good so as to minimize the number of chops, (b) the binding is low so as to minimize the time / fatique rate. The second factor is the easiest to work with you just make a thick blade with a convex grind. The convex part being important as wood will wedge on a flat grind because of the much greater surface area.

Now the problem comes how to you get strong penetration on a thick blade - you need a lot of impact force. Ok, the first part of this is that the blade needs to have a decent mass or otherwise you will reach maximum velocity with low momentum, that's cool because thick blades are heavy.

However you need to consider another factor. When you swing something heavy really hard the impact force that the wood feels pretty much goes back to your hand as well. So now you need a way to prevent your grip from being mangled. First off to reduce the pressure you make the grip round so as to prevent a large surface area. Second you bend the blade to split the contact force and thus reduce the effect you feel. Thirdly you taper the tang so as to reduce the vibration.

This is basically an Ang Khola khukuri.

It is interesting to note that the various aspects influence other factors besides what is noted there. For example the tapered tang also shifts the balance forward which both increases power and reduces counter torques, the bent blade also produces a shearing effect which increases chopping ability, etc. . So basically you can run the argument from many different points along many different paths and get the same design.

One of the reasons that many people may get the wrong impression about a khukuri is that if you alter the specs even a little the whole thing falls apart because it is so integrated. For example if you took an AK and flat ground it it would bind so readily that chopping would be extremely frustrating. Or if you modified the handle to be more square you can no longer use the necessary force because the contact pressure would be to high and so the penetration falls to pot.

Will, can you expand on the CS shovel weapon comment?

Yvsa, I like the bent machete description.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-10-2000).]
 
Cliff,

I am not an expert on weapons but the CS shovel is one of my favorites as far as "edged weapons" go. I find that the CS shovel (1.5 lb) moves faster than most of my working khukuri's (2 lb)as it is lighter. The shovel is roughly 18" long, which will give a distance advantage over most knives. Mine came with all 3 sides sharpened, so it can be used for thrusting as well as stabbing. By the way edge retention is rather poor if you dig with it. The shovel has a fairly netrual balance which is poor for chopping but great for manouvering. The flats of the shovel will delivery painful and possibly disabling blows as well.

Above all, I don't need a reason why I have a shovel with me! I think the application of a shovel is shown in Friday the 13 th Part2 were Jason's mom is decapitated at the end.

Will

 
Now I think I see the secret project in process. Must be HI Ang Khola shovel (AKS)! Or AKS with a blade curving forward (AKFCS).

A real digger...



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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
To my way of thinkin' it's just a matter of what you like to work with. Because if you really want the best weapon, you'll carry a gun. And if you're just lookin' to make big pieces of wood into little pieces in the most efficient manner, you'll use a chainsaw. Whatever makes the individual happiest is what he should use -- be it shovel or khuk. And let's face it, much of what makes many of us happy doesn't really make a whole lot of sense from a purely logical point of view -- in my humble opinion.
 
Steve F, you are right...

In a Bond book there is a quote...

"A man will do the most damage with a weapon he likes."

All- Moe info on the E-tool, I reread the article and it is obvious that it is bias towards the shovels, lots of detail about them. I think the kukri in question was an easy target, on purpose....

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Talonite Information and Resource Page, including other cobalt materials.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
I carry a Cold Steel shovel in my truck, right next to my 15" AK. They live together there in harmony, and complement each other well.
 
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