early/late lockup on liner/frame lock knives.

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there is a thread from May 2012, didn't seem to get much discussion,
early/late lockup on liner/frame lock knives.

I'm into knives only for a year now, but I see alot of knives advertised for sale and identified as having "early lockup".

so help me understand, is this early lockup desired? or is the seller disclosing an undesirable condition? I get that someone might want early lockup in thinking that there is more life in the lock over time. For me personally, it doesn't give me alot of confidence.

My 2 favorite lockups are Terzuolas and Rocksteads, I find them both to be rock solid lockups, full and complete, and it give me confidence. I never trust an early lockup...but that's just me. And what is a late lockup? more than 50%

this is a brand new Higo with what I think is an ideal lockup

27251C9B-88C9-46D3-A7F3-DCFD5DCDEDAD-773-000000C23358D2CA_zpsae8579b9.jpg


I've had 5 Terzuolas made at different times over a span of 20 years and they exhibit the same lockup as shown below

8F75ABF3-C600-4C97-872B-781BBEE865C3-773-000000C587A978D5_zps73715811.jpg


ok, discuss :-)

thanks
 
I don't abuse my knives, so an early lock up is plenty strong enough for me. However, I use my knives often and have worn several liner locks to the point where they develop play as the lock goes all the way over. I like an early lock up because I know it gives room for the lock to wear.
 
Assuming that engagement angles are correct the super early lockup preferred for safe queens is not nearly as safe or reliable as later lock up like in the OP's pictures. Lots of knives are safe queens and a lot of the market produces locks that cater to that misplaced desire for locks that are not completely safe or reliable.
 
Since it seems that a good portion of the knife collecting public wants early lock-up, there must be at least some reasoning for it. With any wear, the progression of the lock bar can only go in one direction, across the blade tang. How fast that occurs results from the materials being used, the geometry designed into the lock , the degree of tolerances used in making the folder and ultimately how many lock-unlock cycles the folder will go through.
On many of today's beefy frame locks, if .040" - .050" of the lock bar overlaps the blade's lock tang ( early lock up), isn't that the same as full overlap with a liner lock who's liner's were usually made with .040" - .050" Ti? On larger tactical type frame lock knives, their use might be more demanding and robust so that does have to be considered, too.
Ultimately, at least with a custom folder, it's a lot easier to increase the degree of lock-up than trying to decrease it.
 
hsc3_90293 said:
there is a thread from May 2012, didn't seem to get much discussion,
early/late lockup on liner/frame lock knives.

I'm into knives only for a year now, but I see alot of knives advertised for sale and identified as having "early lockup".

so help me understand, is this early lockup desired? or is the seller disclosing an undesirable condition? I get that someone might want early lockup in thinking that there is more life in the lock over time. For me personally, it doesn't give me alot of confidence.

My 2 favorite lockups are Terzuolas and Rocksteads, I find them both to be rock solid lockups, full and complete, and it give me confidence. I never trust an early lockup...but that's just me. And what is a late lockup? more than 50%

this is a brand new Higo with what I think is an ideal lockup...

ok, discuss :-)

thanks
Click to expand...

The lock-up on those looks identical to me in terms of % tang-face, was that the point?

lock-up.jpg

I suppose "early lock-up" is an indicator of less wear present on the lock-bar/tang interface but i would also consider "early" lock-up to mean "less" lock-up, less secure. Then again, these are liner/frame-locks, not axis or triad locks. If the concern is lock-security, I suppose you'd want a greater tang-lock interface area or a different lock-style altogether. If the concern is wear-life, earlier is better so long as it is secure enough for your purposes. I am happy when the entire lock-face contacts the tang and there is no vertical play.
 
chiral.grolim said:
The lock-up on those looks identical to me in terms of % tang-face, was that the point?

no, I'm saying that MY preference is the lockup shown on my 2 knives. I'm wondering, do others prefer am early lockup? and if so, why? My observation on the exchange forums recently is when knives are being sold , I see many knives being identified as having an early lockup....
Click to expand...
 
It is my opinion that "early lockup" indicates a newer knife or a knife that hasn't been used alot and makes the knife more attractive to purchase from the seller. When reading the description of a folder for sale if it states the lockup bar is fully engaged for some reason I will pass on the knife. I do not know if full engagement means the folder will develop up and down blade play.
 
I have seen some very "early" lockup that I wouldn't trust. I like to see at least 30-50% lockup (coverage on the blade tang). If I recall correctly, Chris Reeve is very happy with tang coverage up to about 80% on a brand new Sebenza...and it changes little with normal use.
 
I think people like "early" lockup because they assume then the knife has seen little use, not been flipped open hard a lot, etc. Funny thing is I'd rather see more engagement at least 50%. The quality knives I've had even for years of near daily use have not gotten to the 100% point but I don't abuse them.

Honestly I'm still amazed why the liner lock continues to be popular, there are so many more secure options with less variations in them. Even the high dollar production companies seem to have a wide variety of lock engagement ranges. You don't see anyone talking about their axis, ball-bearing, compression lock etc. not being fully engaged or slipping/flexing on them. Honestly with all the other stronger more consistent lock types out there I find myself these days considering the liner lock to be a detracting feature when I see a new knife design.
 
I just bought a knife at a local store and it locks like more than 50 percent and then I ordered the same knife except it's just a plain edge version and it's so early i'm scared to use it.




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all I care about is proper geometry. I never noticed early lockup love and demands for it, prior to coming here and reading folks talk about it. once I realized it was the geometry that mattered I stopped paying attention to early or later lockup.
 
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Well i wouldn't want it folding on my fingers while poking or cutting or wutevers
 
I didnt even know what people were referring to when they mention “lockup”. Now I do. :thumbsup:
 
chiral.grolim said:
The lock-up on those looks identical to me in terms of % tang-face, was that the point?

View attachment 393473

I suppose "early lock-up" is an indicator of less wear present on the lock-bar/tang interface but i would also consider "early" lock-up to mean "less" lock-up, less secure. Then again, these are liner/frame-locks, not axis or triad locks. If the concern is lock-security, I suppose you'd want a greater tang-lock interface area or a different lock-style altogether. If the concern is wear-life, earlier is better so long as it is secure enough for your purposes. I am happy when the entire lock-face contacts the tang and there is no vertical play.
Click to expand...

I notice there seems to be two ways people seem to refer to percentage of lockup.

One is the percentage of the lockbar face the tang covers.

The other seems to be how much tang face is left for the lockbar to move across.

Regardless most people seem to refer to 100% lockup as the lockbar going all the way over and touching the opposite liner or scale.
 
Hoki said:
I just bought a knife at a local store and it locks like more than 50 percent and then I ordered the same knife except it's just a plain edge version and it's so early i'm scared to use it.




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Click to expand...

Give the spine of the early lockup knife a few solid but not too hard taps againt your knee cap. Make sure you hold the knife in such a way that your fingers are out of the path the blade would swing incase the lock fails.

In my opinion the lock should be fine.
 
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