ease of sharpening stainless "in the field"

[Cliff Stamp]

Much is made about chosing carbon steels for "field" knives due to ease of sharpening vs stainless steels and in particular dropping the hardness for the same reason. This is usually based on more myth than reality and has more to do with how the knife in ground rather than what it is made from.

I took an Endura, VG-10 stainless, at 59/60 HRC, sharpened but slightly used, it would press cut 3/8" hemp with 30 lbs, and had little aggression on a draw as it was highly polished. It could almost push cut newsprint and slice it readily. Optimally it should push cut the hemp with ~25 lbs, and make a draw with significantly less force with a medium finish.

The knife was used to cut a one foot square sod in the most brutal way possible which was use it like a root saw, the edge was constantly grating over rocks, and then the sod was skinned off. The knife then had no push cutting ability on the hemp, 150 lbs didn't even score it, and it took 30 full length slices at 30 lbs to make a cut.

I then sharpened it with thiry seconds per side on a concrete block :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/Spyderco/endura/endura_dirt.jpg

I would then make the hemp slices in 2-3 blade lengths, could push cut with about 90 lbs, and easily cut newprint on a draw :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/Spyderco/endura/endura_newsprint.jpg

I spent a few more minutes seeing if the performance could be refined, but the problem was the concrete had large rocks which would pretty much mash into the edge and flatten it, you need a section which is mainly sand and there was none on this block.

I did the same thing years ago with a Fallkniven VG-10 blade, to much the same result. It isn't difficult to restore stainless blades to a decent level of cutting ability (the knife easily cuts fabrics, slices vegetation etc.) on really basic materials.

About a half an hour or searching allowed me to find a flat rock which got it to cut the hemp rope in under a full slice, of course if you live in Arkansas this is probably a lot easier to do.

-Cliff

 

[dantzk8]

Cliff,

The problem is indeed to find the material. It's a remarkable fact that so common is that which you need you won't find it when you need it. I'm sure nobody needs a stone in Arkansas. I live in a cold, rainy forest crossed by many brooks. Believe me, when i need water i'm always far from the nearest one!

Dantzk.

 

[abo4ster]

Much is made about chosing carbon steels for "field" knives due to ease of sharpening vs stainless steels and in particular dropping the hardness for the same reason. This is usually based on more myth than reality and has more to do with how the knife in ground rather than what it is made from.
-Cliff

I agree, but myself and others I know, also like being able to create a spark with high carbon steel and a hard rock. This is a tremendous survival benefit if you know how manager tinder/ember to start a fire.

On a side note, in the field I carry one of the EZE Lap diamond sharpeners in pen form, as it will sharpen stainless and as I just discovered this past weekend serves a dual purpose of being an OK pressure flaker for knapping should I lose my knife.

 

[sodak]

You can create a spark with stainless steel just as easy as non-stainless. My delica produces lots of sparks, and it's VG 10. It's the hardness of the knife, not the Chromium content that makes the spark. Which is why Moras are so lousy at this, they are very soft (for a knife).

 

[abo4ster]

You can create a spark with stainless steel just as easy as non-stainless. My delica produces lots of sparks, and it's VG 10. It's the hardness of the knife, not the Chromium content that makes the spark. Which is why Moras are so lousy at this, they are very soft (for a knife).

Are talking about using flint on stainless? If you are, the spark is actually coming from flint or rod, not the knife. Stainless does work well.

I am referring to using rock with high glass content which is very hard and hitting the spine of something like a Mora to produce a spark. In this scenario, the spark is actually coming from the softer steel of the knife. Something you can't do with hard stainless.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"Flint" creates a spark when struck against steel of the proper hardness by cutting off a piece of the steel - the friction creating heat. If the steel is too soft, there is insufficient friction to create sparks. The "sparks," if captured in water and examined under magnification, prove to be teardrop shaped. They were once molten steel.

If using a "firesteel," the sparks come from the ferrocerium rod. Any hard,sharp edge will do.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It's a remarkable fact that so common is that which you need you won't find it when you need it.

Yes, I over prepare for such reasons. In the pouch on sheaths for example you can easily fit a ferro rod and some spark tinder, a large plastic bag, and a selection of sandpaper. Keeps the knives sharp, makes a quick shelter for rain, and starts a fire.

I agree, but myself and others I know, also like being able to create a spark with high carbon steel and a hard rock.

Yes, there are many reasons to pick non-stainless steels for knives, rock sharpening just isn't one of them. How easy is it to strike sparks with the various tool steels?

-Cliff

 

[MG_Saldivar]

It isn't difficult to restore stainless blades to a decent level of cutting ability... on really basic materials.

I was fascinated to read about your findings and was reminded of Sal Glesser's discussion in the Spyderco Sharpmaker instructional video regarding the use of pottery for sharpening blades (he even demonstrates with what appears to be a terra cotta pot and a kitchen knife).

I've always been surprised by people who create their own custom (and very intricate) survival kits but forget to pack a sharpener! Still, it's nice to know that natural materials can be used in a pinch - even for stainless steel.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

For an actual emergency, just take a piece of duct tape and use it to attach sandpaper to the back of your sheath. It will stay there forever until you need it at which point you can either peel it off of just cut around the paper. Sandpaper can also be rolled up into a really fine tube and put in just about any mini-kit, you can keep a piece in your wallet, etc. . Besides sharpening your knife it can also be used to shape metals and bone and really fine grits can be used to polish metals for reflectors. If you are good and truely stuck and can't even find a rock, you can sift dirt and using fine sand create an abrasive slurry. Generally, anything that abrasive that it can blunt knives really quickly can also be used to sharpen them.

-Cliff

 

[sodak]

"Flint" creates a spark when struck against steel of the proper hardness by cutting off a piece of the steel - the friction creating heat. If the steel is too soft, there is insufficient friction to create sparks. The "sparks," if captured in water and examined under magnification, prove to be teardrop shaped. They were once molten steel.

If using a "firesteel," the sparks come from the ferrocerium rod. Any hard,sharp edge will do.

Sorry, I should have been more precise. I was referring to using a knife to get sparks off of a ferrocium rod. Non of my Moras, both stainless and non stainless are worth a crap at this. Maybe a small amount of sparks 20% of the time. Maybe. Contrasted with other quality knives which make an absolute shower of sparks. Both stainless and non-stainless, it doesn't matter as long as they're sufficiently hard. Hacksaw blades work even better. The file on my Leatherman Wave works even better yet...

 

[Alberta Ed]

Har!

"About a half an hour or searching allowed me to find a flat rock which got it to cut the hemp rope in under a full slice, of course if you live in Arkansas this is probably a lot easier to do."

Up in the NWT by the diamond mines they use DMT pebbles

 

[Don'tkillbill]

Thanks I just got a SS Native as a present with an Aus 10 blade. It took a little to get it really sharp but its nice to hear that its not hard to maintain in the field. I have a few stones and a small lansky triangle ceramic but the sandpaper should be good. What grit?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... the sandpaper should be good. What grit?

For most wood working a really fine grit is best and will be the most used, you don't need to pick up the super fine grades, an fine or x-fine paper will do as it will just wear with use and get finer, so keep a few sheets in your kit and finish with the most worn one.

For a lot of utility use, slicing ropes and cardboard, the knife can often benefit from a more coarse edge, and to repair the edge after some abrasive cutting like cutting up used materials (laying on the ground), or heavy scraping or similar, you need some c-coarse paper.

The best solution is to just pick up a small variety pack, locally you can find them in stores for $1, you get a half a dozen small sheets of various grades. Cut them into pieces and you now have several decent sharpening kits.

Up in the NWT by the diamond mines they use DMT pebbles

Plus all your knives get cryo treatment just by using them outside.

-Cliff

 

[IntheWoods]

For all you guys trying to get a spark off your knife with a rock, want to borrow my zippo?

I find it to be alot more effective at making fire.

Got to be smart to survive, out here in the woods.

 

[Thomas Linton]

For all you guys trying to get a spark off your knife with a rock, want to borrow my zippo?

I find it to be alot more effective at making fire.

Got to be smart to survive, out here in the woods.

What! You find an actual flame superior to a spark? Not very bushcrafty, you. D )

 

[Codger_64]

Cliff,

The problem is indeed to find the material. It's a remarkable fact that so common is that which you need you won't find it when you need it. I'm sure nobody needs a stone in Arkansas.

Dantzk.

Good analogy, sort of. It was in an Arkansas swamp that I found myself knifeless with a downed buck. I searched until I found an old coke bottle ("The Gods Must Be Crazy"?), yet not a stone was to be found to break it. I bounced that bottle off of a dozen trees before I finally broke it, pressure flaked a glass blade, and field dressed the buck.

Noviculite is only found in certain areas of the state, and in veins there. (I realize the reference was made tongue in cheek)

Don't forget that if you do have a knife and it is dull, leather (belt, sheath)with a fine grit embedded will make it razor sharp. You can do the same thing with split softwood, making a "stone" with the addition of gritty clay or fine sand.

Codger