Easy to sharpen and holds a great edge?

Railsplitter

Railsplitter

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
7,843
I’ve seen a few descriptions on dealer pages stating that a blade steel is easy to sharpen and holds a great edge.

To the best of my limited knowledge, sharpening an edge and edge dulling are both by-products of abrasion. When sharpening, the bevel is abraded by the stone and when cutting, the edge is abraded by the material being cut.

What I don’t understand is how can a steel be easy to abrade (as in ease of sharpening) and resistant to abrasion (as in good edge retention) at the same time?

Please note that I am not disputing that this is possible. I simply would like to understand how this works because the logic in my head implies that you can’t have both.

Can anyone give me some idea of how the steel experts achieve this?

Thanks.
 
They don't do it by using scientific tests . It's easy to have an opinion on a steels performance especially when it's on a knife you really like. I'm sure I've been guilty of it to an extent over the decades .
 
I'm far from an expert, but as I understand it abrasion is not the only way a blade gets dull, there's also rolling, chipping, etc. Not to mention sharpening also depends on other factors like carbide size and type, or burr formation. Larrin of knifesteelnerds has some great articles about this.
 
I've always taken this to mean that these two qualities were fairly balanced in said steel. Steels like S30V and Cruwear would fit the bill.
 
Railsplitter said:
I’ve seen a few descriptions on dealer pages stating that a blade steel is easy to sharpen and holds a great edge.

To the best of my limited knowledge, sharpening an edge and edge dulling are both by-products of abrasion. When sharpening, the bevel is abraded by the stone and when cutting, the edge is abraded by the material being cut.

What I don’t understand is how can a steel be easy to abrade (as in ease of sharpening) and resistant to abrasion (as in good edge retention) at the same time?

Please note that I am not disputing that this is possible. I simply would like to understand how this works because the logic in my head implies that you can’t have both.

Can anyone give me some idea of how the steel experts achieve this?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Easy example: Maxamet. It's useful using extremes to illustrate points.

Easy to sharpen, always provided that you use diamond or CBN stones capable of cutting its hard carbides.

Holds a great edge for a long time, because those carbides are hard and tough, relative to what is generally being cut.
 
Dr.Larrin Thomas wrote: Ease in Sharpening

I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. Generally this is “code” for difficulty in abrading away steel. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be “difficult” to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
 
Delta-v said:
I've always taken this to mean that these two qualities were fairly balanced in said steel. Steels like S30V and Cruwear would fit the bill.
Click to expand...
One of the things that started me pondering this was one those descriptions that I mentioned.

It stated that the knife had S45VN steel and it claimed that it has the same edge retention as S30V but it’s easier to sharpen.
 
This is really a non issue in my mind anymore. Diamonds are cheap and mainstream and easy to aquire in anything from guided clamp systems to diamonds bonded into waterstones and plates. And are very affordable.

No steel comes close to diamond. Maxamet is easy to sharpen on diamond. I don't see why "sharpenability" is a factor. I think its more of a matter of simply knowing you can use an Arkansas stone for this steel but this steel needs diamond. The only way I see a steel being "hard to sharpen" is if your trying to sharpen a high carbide steel on a stone or something that's way too soft and can't abrade it. But that sounds like the wrong tool for the job, not that the job is hard.

Maybe this is more of a matter of some folks don't want to buy any new stones or sharpening equipment and base all knife purchases on if their current stone can touch the steel they're looking at purchasing? In other words I think all steels are "easy" to sharpen if you have the proper sharpening tools. I think what would make a knife hard to sharpen is weird blade shapes or serrations.
 
OP, I'm not saying it's you that doesn't want to buy sharpening equipment. I just feel with all the sharpening equipment available now a days I'm more puzzled that "ease of sharpening" is still such a big thing.

Uncle boots nailed it for your question. What your cuttings softer than your knife. Your knifes softer than what your using to sharpen it.
 
elevator man said:
OP, I'm not saying it's you that doesn't want to buy sharpening equipment. I just feel with all the sharpening equipment available now a days I'm more puzzled that "ease of sharpening" is still such a big thing.

Uncle boots nailed it for your question. What your cuttings softer than your knife. Your knifes softer than what your using to sharpen it.
Click to expand...
Understood and agreed. I have a Wicked Edge and a Work Sharp that both have diamond stones and I have never considered any types of steels to be difficult to sharpen on those stones.

I can only assume that some of the comments in dealer descriptions that I referred to are the opinion of that specific dealer or perhaps even a selling strategy. Not necessarily a fact as I’m still not sure how two different steels can have the same edge retention but one is allegedly easier to sharpen than the other.
 
elevator man said:
This is really a non issue in my mind anymore. Diamonds are cheap and mainstream and easy to aquire in anything from guided clamp systems to diamonds bonded into waterstones and plates. And are very affordable.

No steel comes close to diamond. Maxamet is easy to sharpen on diamond. I don't see why "sharpenability" is a factor. I think its more of a matter of simply knowing you can use an Arkansas stone for this steel but this steel needs diamond. The only way I see a steel being "hard to sharpen" is if your trying to sharpen a high carbide steel on a stone or something that's way too soft and can't abrade it. But that sounds like the wrong tool for the job, not that the job is hard.

Maybe this is more of a matter of some folks don't want to buy any new stones or sharpening equipment and base all knife purchases on if their current stone can touch the steel they're looking at purchasing? In other words I think all steels are "easy" to sharpen if you have the proper sharpening tools. I think what would make a knife hard to sharpen is weird blade shapes or serrations.
Click to expand...


Not arguing, but some steels are definitely easier to sharpen, idk why....

*I've read about them, but until you experience it first hand....it's All words in a book



Even the easiest steel like 8670 Over 63-64HRC takes some work.

K390 so far has been my worst, idk it's hardness? It was a buddies benchmade.

63 Cruwear is easy.
Most of what I do is 62 or higher....
I haven't ground/sharpened steels over 64 yet.
 
Railsplitter said:
I can only assume that some of the comments in dealer descriptions that I referred to are the opinion of that specific dealer or perhaps even a selling strategy.
Click to expand...
Dealers tend to be reluctant to say anything bad about knives that they sell. Their descriptions often come straight from the manufacturer. Some manufactures stretch the truth way beyond the breaking point. Even some knife "reviewers" never met a steel they did not like.
 
I LOVE sharpening knives as that has almost become a hobby in itself for me. I have tried many different sharpeners but have settled on freehand with diamond stones and deburring either with a stop or a tungsten rod. Without getting too technical into steel composition and such, I can say from experience that some knives are very hard to get sharp. They develop stubborn burrs and when you remove the burr, then the apex that remaines is still dull. So you repeat the process grinding away at the edge over and over again without ever getting an edge that is sharp enough to shave with.
On the other hand, there are other knives that you can pass on the stones a few times, deburr and the thing will split hairs in no time.
It isn't always about the steel or the hardness. Harder knives or abrasion resistant knives are more difficult to remove the material, but to me it has more to do with grain structure, blade geometry, and there is some other factor I cant quite put my finger on. I guess it all comes down to heat treat. But I do know that some are simply "easy to sharpen" and it doesn't always necessarily correlate with hardness or edge retention.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top