Easy to use knife steels

S

Smithie

Joined
May 6, 2003
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11
I have managed to make a few pointy pieces of steel with handles so far. I used old spring steel but the hardening and anealing turned out so bad that neither could be called a kinfe. I just understand the basics of knife smithing with hich carbon steels. What kind of steel is relatively easy to work, easy to heat treat, and make a decent knife? If there are any where would i acquire some and what would I harden it with at what temperature etc.? I really appreciate any help.

Sincerely,
Matt
 
Matt,
Those spring steels should be working out for you. What's your heat treating process? Also, are you checking them with a magnet to make sure they're hot enough before the quench? It really makes a difference.

Tim
 
If your steels have been one of the 10XX series forget it as far as a easy steel to begin with. If you get lucky enough to find some 5160 locally, that one is worth beginning with and you should expect no greater than about 58 HRc after properly heat treating it.

I agree though, my vote is for O1 - hands down. Do a google search for Admiral Steel.

RL
 
O1 O1 O1. :)

But keep the 10XX series around, once you get heat treat on the O1 down, 10XX(or at least 1095) is not much of a stretch.

Or so I've been told anyways, that's one of my next projects. :)
 
I have to agree except that I would rather suggest 1084 instead of 1095. Both require lightening speed to get into quench but I believe 1095 is even more critical. The basic thought though is, since you ask for an easy steel to learn on, O1 is a real winner and can also make a fantastic working blade. It still must be heat treated properly and I do not want to imply that any of these steels offer much forgiveness.

RL
 
My first knife I over heated and didn't aneal, and is as easy to sharpen as granite. My second knife i over heated even more, i got it white hot, and i anealed it to about as hard as a spoon would be. I think i finally under stand what it takes to make a slab of steel a knife. Would the O1 be expensive? What oil would i use to harden it with?

Matt
 
first knife I over heated and didn't aneal,My second knife i over heated even more, i got it white hot, and i anealed it to about as hard as a spoon
Click to expand...

Im new to this,,I have made and heat treated only a few blades..But Im not sure I understand your heat treating system...

what I do to car springs is this:
1st I heat them in my home-made forge and hammer on the steel to make the rough shape of the blade then heat again until a magnet does not stick, then air cool to room temp.(This is called normalizing)

2nd heat again in forge and this time stick the blade in this stuff called Vermiculite, and allow it to cool over night. (this is called Anealing)


3rd,I use my belt gringer and work down the blade until its cutting edge is aboit as thick as a quarter.

4th heat cutting edge with O/A torch (Or heat again in forge) until just the cutting area of the knife will not attract the magnet, then quench the cutting area in pre-heated oil
(This is called harding the blade)

5th I place the blade in the kitchen oven at 350 for 2 hours (this is called Tempering)

6 I finish belt grinding the knife to the finished edge and buff....done
 
Cool. The O1 is not expensive by comparison. I use not the best quenching oil but the off the shelf vegetable oil has worked well for me. Be sure to pre-heat your quenching oil to about 135 F. before quenching. This will help insure against blade warp, and also have your tempering oven pre-heated before quenching, and be ready to immediately place your O1 blade in the tempering oven before the blade falls below 125 F. For O1 I believe it is best to get the steel into the tempering oven at approx. 350 F. (interrupted quench - count to about 7 seconds and pull the blade. If it smokes and there are no flames put in temper NOW). I suggest (taught me by Mete) you do not temper below 400 F. however, a single 'snap' temper (stress relief) of about 350 F. should be used before doing a cryogenic treatment (deep freeze), followed by tempering not below 400 F. and I would not go much above 400 F. until you have gained more experience. Keep your tempering times to about 1 hour per and do two tempers (not including snap temper) and be sure to do the second (final) temper about 25 degrees less than the first - even though the final temper may be less than 400 F.

You mentioned or indicated that you have been having difficulty in judging temperature of the steel. I will assume you are using a torch in open air or a home built forge or whatever close to that. Presumming I am correct, it is best done in the dark. Watch the O1 blade and try to bring its temperature up rather slowly. Take care to heat the blade uniformly. As color changes to what you might think is hot enough test it with a magnet. Trust me, your first attempts the magnet will stick so be prepared to have to remove it without loosing your rythem. As the magnet becomes less attracted begin to prepare yourself for the idea of quenching. It will be important to quench quickly but with determination so as not to sling the soft blade about causing it to bend. At this time you also want to test your steel with the magnet more frequently. Do not leave your magnet on the hot steel longer than essential. Heat kills a magnet. Upon realizing the magnet no longer is attracted to your steel prepare to quench within about 10 seconds and if you had to put the torch down to test the steel 10 seconds is way too long. When I say ten seconds what I mean is while it is still being uniformily heated. Quench delibertly and quench ALL the blade including tang as fast as you can. Immediately move the blade within the quench in a back and forth cutting motion.

Roger
 
Stay away from the stainless ones. They are a real PITA to HT.
Go for the 10xx series or 5160.
1050 and 1075 are two easy to work and ht steels.

Quench in 15W40 motor oil heated to about 40 °C

I work with C70 which is basically a 1075 steel.
Work by grinding or forging, then normalize trice, heat to non mag, quench in 15W40 motor oil heated to 40 °C and then temper in oven for one hour at 180°C or gently heat up to the desired temper color over a time of at least 40 minutes. Let it air cool and then repeat.
 
1084 is a little less critical than 1095 as far as time to get it cooled. Admiral and others have quit making 1084 and are now selling 1080. Heck from talking to people the 1084 I've been working could be 1080 or 1090 because of the tolerances on mill runs. ;) I've used 5160 and it's pretty forgiving.

I do a clay coat (fireplace mortar from Lowes) and quench in room temp canola oil followed by a triple temper 375x2hours with 2 hour cooling cycles in between heats.

O1 is supposed to be more forgiving than other steels, if you haven't burned it up you can always anneal then do the heat treat over again.

From what you've said about the "spoon soft knife" you tempered at too high a temperature. What most of us do when working out a new tempering cycle is to start low, do brass rod test then raise the tempering temps 25 degrees until we hit what we want. That's the fun of bladesmithing, the experimentation to get what works for you and your equipment.

KEEP NOTES!!! KEEP NOTES!!! That'll help you figure out what went wrong or right.

Good luck, it's quite a journey. :D
 
I used incorrect termanalagy i called tempering anealing. It sounds like it is necessary to temper the knife almost immediately hardened. Is that true? I have a small home made forge made out of a brake drumb and a hair dryer. I get inconsistent heat and thick slag on the steel. The fire is only about three inches deep. Is it necessary for me to make it deeper to get more consistant heat?
 
Smithie...

I dont know...

I dont have enough time working that type of forge. I did use a wheel drum for my forge for about 6 months,,,But I ran into a huge problem with it.

I just could not control where I was heating the blade, I needed a forge design that would allow me to slide the blade into the fire, then slide out sections that are hot enough so they dont over-heat.

Me wheel drum forge was always over heating the tip, and under heating the rest..
 
What type of forge do you use?
I have made all of my knives out of mostly stock removal but my next knife is going to be drawn out. I have a bunch of high carbon rebar of different grades, would it be possible to make a decent knife out of that?

Matt
 
me?

I have had 3 forges,,no, I mean 4 now that I think about it...no waite,,,5?..

Forge 1 - was a "One Brick" forge that i made when I saw it being used in BLADE mag. (It didnt work for me well, so I tossed it)


Forge 2 - was a coal forge made out of a wheel and blow dryer. (It worked but I needed a way to slide different parts of the blade into different parts of the fire. The way the wheel was shaped I could only stick an end of the blade in, no way to heat just the middle.)

Forge 3 - was a coal forge that I built out of a printer stand, a metal drawer, and a shop-vac...worked like a charm!
(worked like a charm in the spring/summer/and fall, however when the temp dipped below -20 its too cold to forge outside...and the winter wind was messing with the coals keeping the fire too low..

Forge 4 - My own invention!...I found a type of iron box about 8 inches wide and about a foot tall with no bottom or top. I would just place this on top of my coal forge and dump the coal into the box, I even made a little lid for the box so that I could forge in wind and rain, I cut two hole in the sides of the box so that I could place the blade into the fire and slide the blade in and out to control the heating...worked better than any forge I had read of yet! (but, still was way too cold to forge outside, and as burning coal makes a ton of sparks ,,I knew I had to dump the whole "Coal Fire" idea and make the jump to gas

Forge 5- a Wisper Low Boy 3 burner.

works like a dream,...heats fast and even,,little doors on both ends to allow slideing the blade in and out,,,
and most importantly,,,,I get to work INSIDE! (the down side is that now I have run out of reasons not to go make more blades)

What have I learned?

I have learned this one rule to being a knife maker....

Rule 1- there is no problem that you might run into, that tossing larger and larger amounts of money at wont "alomst" fix.....
 
I use charcoal in my forest. Should i change my coal. Is there any way to tell what kind of rebar makes a good knife? I live in Illinois.

Matt
 
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