Ed Schempp fixed-blade handle poll.

Carlos

Carlos

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Jul 9, 2000
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Sal Glesser said:
We're still at odds as to what to make the handle out of.

sal
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Since this one is still up for debate at Golden, we have an oppotunity to give some feedback to Sal and Ed on what we would like the handle material for the Ed Schempp fixed blade to be.

Here's what Ed has said on the handles so far:

Ed Schempp said:
The handles on the two prototypes were both neoprene rubber for absorbing shock. I don't think this will lend itself to production. The production piece might have some sort of micarta or other man-made material for the handle, maybe frn. I imagine the intial knives will have CNC machined handles.

When I made the original concept, and then again when I made the knife that will be put into production; function was put first and foremost in the design. I put $4 worth of neoprene that I bought from my local shoe repairman on both knives. But the bottom line is; how does it work? It absorbs shock better than any other material I have used. It is comfortable, and very resistant to slipping. I hope that the handle slaps can be made out of neoprene for the production knife. I don't think my fastening system for the neoprene slaps will translate to production I imagine that the first handle material will be micarta, so they can be machined. I prefer organic contours to textured grips, mainly because of abrasion problems. My goal was to make a piece that could be used for extended periods of time safely and effectively; and the handle is what conects the blade to the user...Take Care...Ed
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So let's get it all in one thread. If you are seriously interested in this knife as a user, what would you like for the handle scales to be? And why?

Is there any handle material that would be a deal-breaker for you? Why?
 
for me rubber would be fine. look at how well swamp rat pulls this off. comfortable and very grippy.

micarta and G-10 are the standards. they're tough and grippy.

FRN would be a deal breaker firstly because it's associated with less expensive knives. it's much weaker than G-10 and IMO not as grippy, perhaps due to the textures used or not used. spyderco's G-10 is textured perfectly IMO but i don't like their FRN as much as G-10.

my choice would be textured canvas micarta. to me it looks the best, feels the best, and performs as well as anything.
 
The resiprene handle on my CampTramp has become a favourite. Grippy, tough, comfortable and shock absorbing.

However I notice the Micarta on the swamprat tactical line sells really well largely due to eye appeal.

I vote for resiprene.
 
If it is the right kind of rubber, then that would be great (i.e. Respirence, not garbage Kraton).

Micarta would be great...FRN not so much. I find that the plasticky stuff that is on the Becker line is just too slippery to feel safe.

G-10 would work as well...what about an upscale version with stabilized wood? (Getting ahead of myself)

Nitin
 
All though I won't use it to the max, I'm planning to get this knife.
But, I really hope it will get a Micarta handle (grippy green canvas micarta, otherwise the micarta like on the Ronin)
I understand that the rubber that I've handled on the proto might perform better in some aspects (feel, grip, not affected by temparature (shrinkin/expanding), but still for me it's 'plastic' :rolleyes: and I would like it to be a more natural material.

Edit: honestly, FRN/Neoprene/Sermollan might be a deal breaker for me. I haven't made up my mind yet, but with these materials I will rethink. With Micarta or G-10 I'll grab my CC instantly... I understand that it's a bit silly reasoning, but that's just how I feel about it...


Ted
 
From what has been said about this knife, I imagine there are going to be two primary markets for it, with vastly different ideas of an "ideal" handle. I doubt if there is one material that will satisfy both those who want it to use in cutting competitions, and those who want it primarily as a wall hanger. So perhaps two versions would be logical. The "Sermollan" material Spyderco uses for kitchen knives - or an equivalant US material if these are being made in Golden - would seem, according to Ed's statements above, to be a viable choice for the "competition" version. For the "show" version, wood can be contoured nicely and would look great.
 
The Deacon said:
From what has been said about this knife, I imagine there are going to be two primary markets for it, with vastly different ideas of an "ideal" handle.
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Setting objectivity aside Deacon, what would suit your personal needs and wants best? How do you intend to use the knife?

If Spyderco were going to turn one sample of this knife out, hilted just to suit you, what would the handle be made of?

We can let Sal and Ed find the "ideal" once we've gotten a good cross section of ELU personal preferences for them to look over.
 
I am outdoors in cold weather a lot and I love the resiprene on Swamprat knives. Anything that allows skin contact with the metal tang can really suck the heat out of your hand, so I'd prefer something as grippy and durable as resiprene. No squishy rubber though. Micarta is ok as long as it fully encloses the tang, but it has to be textured for grip.
btw, from what I've read about this knife - it is a "must-have". I'm looking forward to it, and as always, getting it right is worth the wait.
 
I plan on getting this knife.

I'm a big fan of canvas micarta. I have several impact tools made from micarta, and have broken numerous tools made from less capable materials (purple heart, oak, hickory, etc). Yeah, canvas micarta looks "rougher" than some other handle types, but I think that will work (aesthetically) with a knife of this type, and the roughness will mean it's more grippy.

Though I like the appearance of seeing the tang between the scales, dogrunner's point about total enclosure is well made- no metal to skin contact should be allowed in the handle.

Thanks for being the company you are.

John Shirley
 
I would prefer Micarta.

If it's going to be rubber, then don't use anything other than resiprene. The kind of rubber Cold Steel uses on its fixed blades would make me not buy this knife.
 
How about micarta scales with a layer of rubber underneath to absorb shock? (similar to what Fehrman does with some of their handles)
 
I would prefer a slighlty grippy but moreso smooth material. A fixed blade like this must be comfy to work with for a few hours at a time. The handle design on the proto I handled seemed secure enough to not slip out of your hand when fatigue sets in. So the handle material does not have to be uber-grippy, so no Spydie G10 for me. Rubber also sticks to clothing, like the jacket that hangs over the knife for example, so that is no good for me either. I would like something like Micarta, like on the ronin. That particular variation of micarta was smooth enough to be comfortable for prolonged use, yet it still grips back enough to add to the security of the grip.

Wouter
 
Canvas Mircarta would be my first choice. It might not be as grippy as Resiprene or similar, but it will last longer in prolonged outdoor use. Besides I love the feel and looks of it.
 
SteelDriver said:
How about micarta scales with a layer of rubber underneath to absorb shock? (similar to what Fehrman does with some of their handles)
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that's a great idea. but unlike the fehrmans, maybe we can enclose the whole tang in micarta with a small layer of rubber underneath for cushioning.

this blade is gonna rock!
 
We all have our own [limited] experiences with various materials, so it is hard to avoid painting with too broad a brush (i.e. rubber is not all the same, nor is micarta), so here are my limited experiences:
some rubber is sticky, some uncomfortable in the hand for extended use (Cold steel kraton), but I really do find the Resiprene used by Swamprat to be comfortable, not too draggy on fabric, good grip without tearing up or bruising a hand.
A lot of micarta I have encountered is tooo slick, particularly when wet or when wearing gloves (unless the gloves have grippy material built in). G10 or canvas micarta can be hard on the hands if too rough or if handle shape is not suitable for task, but grip is great. Paper micarta = too slippery for a large working knife. So ideal handle will be comfortable for extended use, not cause pressure spots, not grind your skin down, be warm in cold weather, be secure when wet or gloved, etc. My favorite suggestions remain: resiprene or canvas micarta. Just my $0.02 - state and federal taxes = 0 :D
 
I would like Micarta, G10, stabilized wood or FRN – in fact I think FRN would be my first choice. I am not a fan of rubber handles, but the right stuff, done right (as I am sure Spyderco will), would not be a deal breaker (I would want one with just about any handle material).




- Frank
 
My preference would be canvas micarta, but not finished very well so it is still grippy. Moisture on the hand from worink out with roughly finished canvas micarta makes it tacky in my experience.
 
Spectre said:
I plan on getting this knife.

I'm a big fan of canvas micarta. I have several impact tools made from micarta, and have broken numerous tools made from less capable materials (purple heart, oak, hickory, etc). Yeah, canvas micarta looks "rougher" than some other handle types, but I think that will work (aesthetically) with a knife of this type, and the roughness will mean it's more grippy.

Though I like the appearance of seeing the tang between the scales, dogrunner's point about total enclosure is well made- no metal to skin contact should be allowed in the handle.

Thanks for being the company you are.

John Shirley
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I agree with John. If you have to go with "rubber" I much prefer the handles on the Spyderco kitchen knives to the ones on the Perrin.
 
Great thread, I appreciate the comments. I really enjoy problem solving and this thread is cool because of that process taking shape. Thanks for the well posed question Carlos.

Carlos, I don't mean to hijack your thread. I'm really trying to augment some of the choices in relationship to commercial production. Many good minds working together might come up with an innovative commercial idea that will suit the ELU better than anything done before. Spyderco is not only open to this idea but has been a leader and risk taker in the industry.

I have some preferrences in handle design. I do all I can to make a handle egonomic. If the handle shape adapts to your hand you don't have to hold on extremely tight. I find that a lot of texturing abrates my hand with prolonged use; so I try to avoid abrative textures. I do on the other hand like some indexing in the grip so you know where the piece is at all times. I will utilize slight finger groves that add surface to hand area contact, but not deep enough to prevent sliding the hand down the handle for a different or controlled grip position.

Now the challenge is how to pull this off commercially and economically.

I imagine that a machined micarta handle that is sandblasted or tumbled will be a viable option. This technology might lend itself to a narrowed tang that is completely surrounded with micarta. I would like a protubing radiused tang on the butt of the knife for persuading stuff.

Keep up the brain storming it has already yielded some viable ideas. Thanks again Carlos for the great thread...Take Care...Ed
 
Ed Schempp said:
Carlos, I don't mean to hijack your thread.
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Hi Ed,

This thread isn't for me, it is for you and Spyderco. Please steer it wherever you like. :)
 
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