EDC and instinct.

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gadgetgeek

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May 19, 2007
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This last week I found myself in a rather high stress, rapidly progressing situation. The details of which are not important other than to say I ended up cutting a rope. The tool I grabbed was the leatherman skeletool which I've posted about before. Now, the reason I grabbed the skeletool had nothing to do with its suitability for the task, I didn't have that much time to think. I grabbed it because it was the most familiar piece of gear on my person. I also had a spyderco roadie in my pocket that has only recently been added to my EDC, and a rescue rope cutter which I forgot entirely about.

Why is this important? I don't think there is any need to make sure you have a one-handed blade available at all times, or some high-speed low-drag device. What is important is that in a high stress incident I went for the knife I've been using the most. For those who carry a multi for 90% of the cutting with an extra "special" knife for emergencies, it might be worth considering that in that clinch you might just go for the familiar tool. I don't think that's a bad thing. My rebar would have done the job, as would any SAK. Even a classic would have opened up that rope with no trouble. I think we get trapped into thinking that we need that other rescue knife or need some feature to ensure that we are prepared. But what I took from the incident is that more that features, edge holding, geometry or anything else, you need familiarity with your tools.

I suspect that Carl would agree with me, having operated under high stress conditions with his highly specialized tactical stockman, (or was it a peanut?) either way.

I feel like it would be easy to under-prepare by over-preparing. Too much gear and not enough familiarity. What do you think? I'm still processing the event and trying to get as much out of it as I can. I'll probably never do another live rope cut in my career, but its worth evaluating.
 
Agreed 100%. In my opinion your most useful knife is the one you are most familiar with. Great topic!
 
gadgetgeek said:
I don't think there is any need to make sure you have a one-handed blade available at all times, or some high-speed low-drag device.
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It would have been difficult if not impossible for this father to protect his son without such a device. Link.

While the likelihood of a mountain lion attack is very low, the world is full of hazards that can effectively addressed with only a locking knife that can be brought into action instantly. You make a very good point about familiarity and so-called muscle memory, but being familiar with a Classic SD probably wouldn't do much good if a cougar clamps down on a little boy's face.

Pray for the best. Prepare for the worst. Something like that. :thumbup:
 
That's very true powernoodle. I initially selected the skeletool because it had all the properties that I thought would make a very useful, multi functional tool, including having a one-handed opening blade. So selection has a lot to do with it as well. But to me that cuts both ways. the perfect tool for one job will be less good for others. by having a tool that was a generalist, it got used, carried, and thus was very familiar. Had that father been carrying a Vic Trecker, or even a farmer, I bet he would have done the same, familiarity with the tool being key. Might not have done as well, might have. I think the point is he had a knife that he was comfortable with enough to bring into play. otherwise it would have been his feet, hands, teeth, whatever his instinct told him to do.

I want to say, I fully agree with you that there will always be a need for carrying a good knife. I guess my point is that its very tempting for a lot of guys to carry several blades and each one is for a different what-if situation. And I wanted to share my experience that even if you were carrying the perfect knife for the job, the one you use most often is the one you will grab. In my case it happened that those were the same knife, which I'm glad about.
 
I always carry a one-hand knife clipped in my pocket. However I have a lot of different knives in my EDC rotation, with different configurations and different opening methods. (Different configurations meaning tip up vs. tip down.) Under normal conditions I can pull a knife out pretty quickly and open it for use, but I'm concerned that under a high stress situation I might fumble to figure out how to pull the knife out and turn it for opening. I've found that tip down when I pull a knife out the opening hole or thumb stud is right at my thumb. When pulling a tip up knife out I have to do some gymnastics or slight of hand to rotate the knife so I can open it. Under a high stress situation how long will it take me to figure this out and employ it? The obvious answer would be to pick the one knife that I can open the easiest and carry it only. But who among us with a lot of knives can do that?
 
I had time to open the zipper pocket, remove the knife, re-orient, open and secure the knife. But I've also done a tiny bit of training involving slowing down and focusing. (nothing quite like trying to single feed .38 rounds into a revolver from the ground covered in spent brass while a giant of a man is right behind you yelling loud enough to be heard over the hearing protection, fun stuff) But if you EDC knife is always right front, and every sandwich you cut, and box you open starts with your hand dropping to right front, you are farther ahead than the guy who uses his right front knife for everything, but the emergency knife is IWB at his right kidney. That's what I'm getting at. I see the biggest risk (and I used to do this as well) is carry the "friendly" knife, and the extra special emergency one. Now I'm not here to tell anyone its the right or wrong way. Its more to try to share the experience.

Training can change this, but how many of us train that way? I don't. my training is just living. I either set up habits that work, or I don't, hardest part is figuring out which are the good ones before its too late.

So far today I made a zing-it tether for the skeletool because my other plan to secure the knife with the tether I had didn't work. As in, I didn't think to get the tether into play, and so I was at risk of dropping and loosing the knife. So now its secured semi-permanently and my hope is that the zing-it's natural tendency to not tangle will help me.
 
 
This is a mistake that I think many make; getting yourself spread to thin with too much gear. I've always found that once you find something that works for you and your life style, stick with it. Get to really know it. Then get to know it some more. I feel I was very blessed to grow up around some old fashioned gentlemen who once they had something, that was it. No matter if it was a certain pocketknife, rifle, kind of car, they used the heck out of it and got good with it. Like the old guy with one gun, he knows how to shoot it.

When you carry a pocketknife in the same place for 40 years, go through the same motions to take it out for 40 years, when theres some emergency and you need it now, the guy with the old slip joint will have his knife out almost as fast as the guy one of one hand opening knives. There won't be any fumbling, just pull the knife out and open and get to work. I've seen it done. I also would bet that if that Texas daddy had a barlow or trapper in his pocket, that mountain lion would had a clip blade shoved in him about one second later. That same mountain lion was repulsed with a back pack earlier, so a nylon pack did the job in that case. In the case of the California girl who got dragged off her mountain bike by a mountain lion, the lion was put to flight by her companion using a bicycle pump. One of those small one inch diameter aluminum tube pump things. We can only conclude that the hard core mountain biker was very familiar with the feel of the bicycle pump in hand, so for him the pump was a good tool for the moment of crisis where muscle memory and long familiarization with the object came into play.

My friend Leonard was a butcher for 50 years. He started out as a meat cutting apprentice in high school. For his whole life he butchered beef carcasses, pig carcasses, chickens, ducks, turkeys. His favorite knife was a five inch boning knife. He used that knife for almost everything. Sometimes he'd used a large breaking knife, or the saw, but most meat cutting was done with the 5 inch boning knife. Len knows how to cut, where to cut, and the mechanics of cutting. If there was some altercation and Len had his boning knife, I'd put my money on him over any would be Rambo with a 20 knife collection of one hand tactical knives. It's all about familiarity with your chosen tool. For years I watched my old man deal with all kinds of stuff with his little Case peanut, a Sear's 4-way keychain screw driver, a P-38, a paper clip, and maybe some black electrical tape. He was one of those depression era guys who had the real world experience of dealing with all kinds of emergencies with just what was around. So he got good with what was in his pocks, and since he felt right with that, whenever bothered with much else. Sure, there was a tool kit in the truck of the car, but he seldom used it.

People these days have too too easy, and have become gear obsessed. They think all the fancy gear is going to help them but in reality it's going to hurt them because they never stick with one or two things long enough to learn how far they can go with it. Keep in mind the lesson of the one gun man.
 
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Good thread, and it makes a lot of sense. During the 10+years I carried and used my old Victorinox Spartan as my sole knife back in the '80s and '90s, I became very familiar with the format of the standard SAK, to where I could pull it out and easily access the tool I needed without even looking at the knife. That muscle memory is still there. The feel of it is very distinctive.

That said, I still like carrying and using my Insingo. One can also become very familiar with a modern OHO knife as well, if he/she develops the equivalent familiarity with it. I also got that way with my Delica. One category is not better or worse than the other. I do agree that one can become so obsessed with different knives that it can be hard to develop that 'bonding' that only happens with long-term carry and use of a particular knife.

Anyway, I'll always have a SAK on me, no matter what else I might be carrying.

Jim
 
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The key to emergency situations is being familiar with your gear, always maintaining/carrying it in the same place, etc. You go into auto-pilot and do what you've trained to do (which if you haven't trained or you change things a lot might involve a lot of fumbling or worse). If you're familiar with your kit you don't even have to give it a conscious thought, you just do it.

I'm old and stubborn, so everything is in the same place and in the case of my pocket knife especially, it's always in the RFP. I use it multiple times a day and it's always there when needed. :thumbup:
 
This is a great thread. Many good points to consider.

I agree 100% using the knife you are most familiar with. I carry one in my right front tip up. Always. I do, however also carry a backup in case I lose my primary in an emergency situation.
 
i normally carry one hand open spring assisted knife yesterday i pocket carried my leatherman wave for first time, which is tip up instead of tip down and i didnt have any trouble getting used to it first time i pulled it out was same as if i had 500 times. guess im just different. i do have very fast surrounding evaluation skills ive been told though.
 
I realize that I didn't make it clear where the skeletool was carried. It lives in the left main pocket of my ribz pack, secured to the inner mesh organizer by its pocket clip, right near the center zipper. Ideally I should be able to get it with either hand this way.

My guess is that when you grab any tool, your brain is going to be able to quickly give you whatever info you need, that is easy to get. For example, lets say you carry a slim folder for a while, you know that because of the pocket clip, a right hand draw puts your hand in the correct position. Then you go to the multi, and your brain knows that this is a different tool, so it re-maps, but you also know which side you want because its indexed to the pocket clip. Take that same tool and belt carry it, without the clip, do you put it back the same way every time? I don't, so for me sheath carrying a multi, I have to look at it. It works for other tools as well, pick up a pair of vice-grips, and you can quickly tell if they are upside-down, but a small pair of side-cutter, and which side is the edge on? gotta look.

So in my case, it was not a "smooth" deployment, but of the tools I had at my disposal, I went to the location where I knew a workable tool was. Not to cast judgment, but there is a very big difference between just opening a knife, and a stressful situation. Would you think to reverse the Wave and use the serrated blade? Maybe, but I suspect most wouldn't, because its not part of the normal deployment. That's mostly what I'm trying to get at with this. Some people have the dexterity where they can just pick up a thing, and their fingers make it work. I'm not one of those. Some also, via practice, training or inclination are far better at responding to high stress situations.

Every few months there is a thread about which rescue knife to get, or which seatbelt cutter or what have you, to add to someone's EDC. Generally that means adding another knife to the one that is there. My suggestion is that this secondary knife will not serve the purpose as hoped. But will be forgotten when the incident happens. Now if a person wants to carry a rescue knife as their primary EDC then by all means, if it works for you, go for it. The familiarity will be a benefit. Its just that most rescue knives make poor EDC utilities.

Again, I don't think the tool itself matters as much as familiarity and carry choice. If you always carry RFP then when its reaction mode, you will go to RFP rather than wherever the best tool is. So keep that in mind when adding tools or changing your methods. That's all I really wanted to share.
 
It's actually pretty silly to carry around a Knife for self defense for the avg person...

My Father who used to teach British police basic self defense back in the 60's. Actually warned me to never carry a knife, as most people cannot draw it out fast enough to respond in a violent situation. If you are not used to violence, it takes the brain a couple seconds to figure out what's going on and what to do. Especially if you are sucker punched the criminals might find your own knife, and use it on you.
Also unlike a Gun it takes some mental prep to actually hurt someone with a knife.

That being said, I carry two knifes...Since I'm an avid outdoor person, I like having a larger one hand opening knife, there's tons of uses for it and it makes me feel good. But I also carry my basic SAK where ever I go because time and time again i'll be working with someone and they will ask "Do you have a knife I can borrow?" So instead of intimidating and scaring them with my Tactistyle knife, I hand over the SAK. Which makes them feel relieved, and view you as someone normal and handy.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Every few months there is a thread about which rescue knife to get, or which seatbelt cutter or what have you, to add to someone's EDC. Generally that means adding another knife to the one that is there. My suggestion is that this secondary knife will not serve the purpose as hoped. But will be forgotten when the incident happens. Now if a person wants to carry a rescue knife as their primary EDC then by all means, if it works for you, go for it. The familiarity will be a benefit. Its just that most rescue knives make poor EDC utilities.

.
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This is the very reason that I am a bit scornful of the so called rescue knife thing. When a real emergency happens, there's no time at all to think, look at the tool, and figure out what way you're going to open it. The one time in my life when I really was in a dire situation, it was total instinctive reaction and I don't even really remember pulling out my knife. It's sort of a vague impresionalistic recall.

Crawlinginto an upside down mostly demolished datsun B210 that is burning with a black greasy smoky fire, you can't really even see what's going on. You can't breath because the stinking oil smoke literally gags you, and you know that you have a very little amount of time to get it done, About half the time you can hold your breath under perfect conditions. Hearing a baby screaming is icing on the cake. At that point in time I had been carrying that old Buck 301 stockman for about 20 years. I had not become a knife nut yet, and this was way before the internet forums that encourage insane buying.

Laying on my back on what was once the ceiling of the car, trying to push the seat belt release, I knew I needed to cut it or I was going to have to abandon the trapped woman and get out before I succumbed to smoke inhalation, or die there with her trying. I'd already got the car seat with the baby out, being a father of three I was familiar with car seats, and I passed the baby out to my daughter Jessica who was right outside the window. I sort of recall digging into my pocket, but don't remember pulling open the sheep foot blade, or why. Maybe some kind of weird speeded up nano second thinking because of the stressful situation or instinct, I don't know. But I do know one thing; if I had been a knife nut and switched out knives on a regular basis, it would not have been so pretty. But 20 years, that's 20 years of just one knife, day in, day out, and I knew that knife by feel like I know my own face in the mirror every morning. Soon as my hand grabbed that old stockman, I knew what blade was where, and I just pulled it open without even looking at it.

There's a hell of a lot to be said for familiarity with what you are carrying. To this day I won't carry a new Buck stockman because they re-arranged the blades. The heck with that. ONce I was familiar with something, I don't change if I don't absolutely positively have to.
 
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jackknife said:
This is the very reason that I am a bit scornful of the so called rescue knife thing. When a real emergency happens, there's no time at all to think, look at the tool, and figure out what way you're going to open it. The one time in my life when I really was in a dire situation, it was total instinctive reaction and I don't even really remember pulling out my knife. It's sort of a vague impresionalistic recall.

Crawlinginto an upside down mostly demolished datsun B210 that is burning with a black greasy smoky fire, you can't really even see what's going on. You can't breath because the stinking oil smoke literally gags you, and you know that you have a very little amount of time to get it done, About half the time you can hold your breath under perfect conditions. Hearing a baby screaming is icing on the cake. At that point in time I had been carrying that old Buck 301 stockman for about 20 years. I had not become a knife nut yet, and this was way before the internet forums that encourage insane buying.

Laying on my back on what was once the ceiling of the car, trying to push the seat belt release, I knew I needed to cut it or I was going to have to abandon the trapped woman and get out before I succumbed to smoke inhalation, or die there with her trying. I'd already got the car seat with the baby out, being a father of three I was familiar with car seats, and I passed the baby out to my daughter Jessica who was right outside the window. I sort of recall digging into my pocket, but don't remember pulling open the sheep foot blade, or why. Maybe some kind of weird speeded up nano second thinking because of the stressful situation or instinct, I don't know. But I do know one thing; if I had been a knife nut and switched out knives on a regular basis, it would not have been so pretty. But 20 years, that's 20 years of just one knife, day in, day out, and I knew that knife by feel like I know my own face in the mirror every morning. Soon as my hand grabbed that old stockman, I knew what blade was where, and I just pulled it open without even looking at it.

There's a hell of a lot to be said for familiarity with what you are carrying. To this day I won't carry a new Buck stockman because they re-arranged the blades. The heck with that. ONce I was familiar with something, I don't change if I don't absolutely positively have to.
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Well done!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
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