Edge Centering on waterstones

L

leafstorm

Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
391
Hey guys i'm pretty new to sharpening and have decided to learn freehand using norton waterstones. I've got the 1000 grit and 4000 grit that i'm using to establish and refine an edge. I know my knives aren't nearly as sharp as they could be but I am finally starting to get results the more I practice.

My question for all you gurus is how do you ensure your edge is perfectly centered at the end of sharpening? Is this totally a visual thing? Im using the technique where you raise a burr on one side before moving to the other. If you sharpen too much on one side obviously the edge will be off center. How do you guys deal with this?

-leaf
 
That's not a technique its a mistake, grinding on one side until you get a burr with benchstones probably threw the edge way off center. With hand sharpening you want to work to the apex by grinding a little on each side until you form a burr or sharp edge.
 
Ive been looking at your sharpening posts, lots of useful information! I read that you should work one side until you form a burr in a sharpening FAQ by Joe Talmadge.

So let's say you wanted to re-profile the back-bevel on your knife to a more acute angle. Would you still alternate sides or work one side at a time?
 
It's one of those experience things, you can grind on one side to form a burr as long as you know what all the following steps will be. It's also going to depend on the condition of the edge.

Until you yourself can answer the questions of your thread I would stick to working a little per side ;)

P.S. some coarser stones would help, 1k is more of a sharpening stone and not a grinding stone.
 
Ok thanks for the tips, much appreciated. I do have a 220 norton stone but it's VERY aggressive. I will keep on practising with my beater knives. :)
 
leafstorm said:
Hey guys i'm pretty new to sharpening and have decided to learn freehand using norton waterstones. I've got the 1000 grit and 4000 grit that i'm using to establish and refine an edge. I know my knives aren't nearly as sharp as they could be but I am finally starting to get results the more I practice.

My question for all you gurus is how do you ensure your edge is perfectly centered at the end of sharpening? Is this totally a visual thing? Im using the technique where you raise a burr on one side before moving to the other. If you sharpen too much on one side obviously the edge will be off center. How do you guys deal with this?

-leaf
Click to expand...

A big part of the equation is if the knife still has the factory edge. Many many come from the shop with an offcenter edge, or bevels at different angles. Grinding one side till a burr forms shouldn't be a problem IF the bevel is symmetrical to begin with - just count strokes till a burr and do the same number to the other side (this is the only time I go by stroke count). Verify what you're doing with a close visual inspection and correct if needed. If it is off from the shop, just keep track of it and slowly correct during subsequent sharpenings. Verify everything you do with frequent visual inspections.

BTW, those Nortons are fast cutters - the 1000 grit can do a lot, but knifenut is correct, go to the 220 for thinning the backbevel. One last thing - the Nortons are fast and leave a very burr free edge on most steels so, again, use frequent visual inspection. You might only see the burr with a very close look - easy to grind more than necessary. They also dish out with alarming speed, so keep track of how flat they are and try to move around the stone so it gets worn down evenly or you'll be lapping it constantly. You'll be surprised at how little pressure is needed - IMHO the Norton waterstones cut noticeably faster than diamonds on most steels.
 
I've always just focused on keeping the bevel faces as wide as each other. I thought that as long as they are both the same uniform width, that the edge will be centered?

Also, I use the Norton waterstones and only use the 220/1000. The 1000 grit is like a medium-fine stone in that it gives a pretty fine edge, but it can also remove a lot of metal. If you keep it plenty wet and get a slurry built up, it's actually somewhat nicer to even out bevel faces on it than on the 220 because in my opinion the 220 dishes out too quickly to really count on it for too long without stopping and flattening often.
 
I've got a few knives which have the same bevel width on both sides, yet the edge is off center. It could have to do with the original blade grind which is slightly off as well.
In all practicality though, it doesn't matter so much if the edge is a little bit off center, so it's mostly a cosmetic thing (which I do care about).
 
The 320 grit Norton Fine India is a good stone to start with if you don't need to do any serious reprofiling. The combination stone with 100 grit and 320 grit Fine India is a good reprofiling stone, and it sounds like you could use both grits in your shop.

The 320 grit Fine India is also a good place to stop sharpening for a woods/bushcraft/general utility knife or machete, especially for 1095CV and similar steel. It gives you a scarily effective slightly toothy edge that bites into and cuts things very well.
 
HeavyHanded said:
A big part of the equation is if the knife still has the factory edge. Many many come from the shop with an offcenter edge, or bevels at different angles. Grinding one side till a burr forms shouldn't be a problem IF the bevel is symmetrical to begin with - just count strokes till a burr and do the same number to the other side (this is the only time I go by stroke count). Verify what you're doing with a close visual inspection and correct if needed. If it is off from the shop, just keep track of it and slowly correct during subsequent sharpenings. Verify everything you do with frequent visual inspections.

BTW, those Nortons are fast cutters - the 1000 grit can do a lot, but knifenut is correct, go to the 220 for thinning the backbevel. One last thing - the Nortons are fast and leave a very burr free edge on most steels so, again, use frequent visual inspection. You might only see the burr with a very close look - easy to grind more than necessary. They also dish out with alarming speed, so keep track of how flat they are and try to move around the stone so it gets worn down evenly or you'll be lapping it constantly. You'll be surprised at how little pressure is needed - IMHO the Norton waterstones cut noticeably faster than diamonds on most steels.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great tips man. I have noticed the norton stones wear quickly and holy smokes do they cut fast, which is what youd expect. When it comes to reprofiling a factory backbevel, I can put a fairly sharp zero edge on my knives, because I can see the angle of the bevel contacting the stone as well as feel it. It's when it comes time to microbevel, I cant seem to keep things consistent. Do you alternate sides when doing a microbevel or work one side at a time and count strokes?
 
leafstorm said:
Thanks for the great tips man. I have noticed the norton stones wear quickly and holy smokes do they cut fast, which is what youd expect. When it comes to reprofiling a factory backbevel, I can put a fairly sharp zero edge on my knives, because I can see the angle of the bevel contacting the stone as well as feel it. It's when it comes time to microbevel, I cant seem to keep things consistent. Do you alternate sides when doing a microbevel or work one side at a time and count strokes?
Click to expand...

Why bother with a microbevel when you have stones that cut as fast as these? IMHO a microbevel is useful in situations where you're beating up an edge and don't have the resources to do a clean job of touching it up. A good example - I used to bring a large butcher's steel with me when I was clearing vines on my property. Machete getting dull? give 'er a few swipes with a steel. Get back to the garage where I can stabilize the blade against a benchtop or padded vise, and properly touch it up with a file or stone. Another situation is if you're working a really tough steel on something like an Arkansas stone. The abrasive just isn't up to the task of grinding a large bevel without taking a long time. Use a SiC stone to cut the bevel and finish it with a microbevel on the slower cutting natural stones. As a general rule I do not use them. Ever. In the rare case where I have an edge that's too acute, I put a shallow convex on the edge instead.

In any event, I do my convex edges on a waterstone/benchstone and that's a lot like a microbevel (kind of). I grind and finish the exact same way, but usually start with the spine low and gently elevate it till I get to the apex. The problem with the microbevel is you're cutting a new apex - no feedback until you make a few passes. In that case I'd swap sides every pass and hope not to need more than two or three passes. Every time you go back to touch up that microbevel your feedback should improve a bit. You could also try finishing your edge off with a few trailing strokes on the 4000 grit. Just make sure the burr is gone or very nearly so before doing this. It might be more tolerant of any pitch variation due to the lack of feedback.

If you're talking about a fairly standard bevel relative to the backbevel instead of the traditional use of the word (a miniscule bevel applied at the apex of a steeper secondary bevel), make sure your stone is good and wet, and use a Sharpie if needed - just let it dry well before taking to the stone and it'll hold up well enough. When in doubt, lower the spine for a very soft pass or two to recalibrate your feedback sensor with a bit of contact on the shoulder. As you elevate the spine, bringing the bevel into better contact you'll feel the difference straight off. I do this quite a bit if I'm fighting a tough burr and switching sides frequently. You'll never see a tiny bit of rub on the shoulder, but if you loose the correct bevel angle you could undo a lot of good work.
 
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