Edge geometry for different steels?

Cpt. Thomas

Cpt. Thomas

Joined
Apr 2, 2010
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I have searched and found comments on thinning back blades and using different edge geometry for different steel but nothing as far as a guide or table for recommendations? Does any one know if there is one?

If not, those of you that have serious experience with any of the following listed steels please chime in! I realize that actual hardness from manufacturer to the next even in the same steel varies a lot. Also since I carry several blades at the same time, I am able to have specific use blades such as stupid sharp honed pocket knife for fine work, a large folder / med. fixed for utility cutting and a large fixed for offense / defense. I have blades in the following steels so any solid recommendations for these steels in scary sharp and solid utility geometry would be appreciated?


"Carbon V" or the Camillus 0170-6C

D2 Tool

S30V

S90V

CPM-M4

8Cr14MoV

Sandvik 14C28N

AUS-6M

AUS-8A

Busse Kin INFI

Busse Kin SR-71

VG-1

VG-10

420HC

440C

ATS-34

Carbon 1055
 
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What do you use to sharpen?
Do you cut a lot of coarse materials?
What are your most carried blades?


I could give you all sorts of answers but they would be of little use without knowing what kind of performance you want.
 
There are, unfortunately, no shortcuts.

A lot of study will be required. Each steel, and each knife geometry, and each knife useage require somewhat different angle bevels, sharpening techniques, etc.

You've picked a good forum, though. :thumbup: There's a lot of knowledge here.

(Unfortunately, there's also a bit of B.S. that you must learn to spot. :p )
 
i would like to know the same thing about the d2 steel. from his pic we are in the same ppart of the world. mine is used for self defense. idont mean to hijack just curious.
 
knifenut1013 said:
What do you use to sharpen?
Do you cut a lot of coarse materials?
What are your most carried blades?


I could give you all sorts of answers but they would be of little use without knowing what kind of performance you want.
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I have most sharpening tools known to man :eek: Natural and synthetic water stones, diamond laps, strop's, guide sharpeners, Edge Pro - Pro, files, grinders & wheels...... you name it :D

My pocket knives are usually polised for fine work, utility folder / fixed is just that, usualy finished with with 380-400 for some tooth.

What do I carry most? Depending on mode, mood & mission...... All of them. If may need disposables or unmarked blades I normaly carry issues which could be Mission Knives Ti, Busse's etc. or Cold Steel Recons's.

Basicly I don't need to know how or what finish to sharpen for the use I need. I am wondering what would be reasonable limits for the different steel's in say a heavy utility use vs. fine work.

I saw a comment not to long ago along the lines of "I use my knives hard and regularly take my M4 to 12 deg. with no chipping or rolling but I would never try that with my S90V blade."

12 deg. per side 24 deg. inclusive sounds pretty thin for a hard use knife to me and the reason I am asking this question with the above listed steels that I use. I am just courious if I'm missing out by not thinning blades / steels that can take it?

Thanks!
 
CPM S30V, S90V, M4, can all take 12 per side without issue, best to do it freehand though as the slight convex from the hand sharpening will aid in its resistance to deformation. You can also go lower (10 degrees per side) and add a microbevel. This makes for a tough edge that's easy too keep sharp with minimal tools and will cut like a hot knife through butter.

Basic stainless steels and carbon steels I wouldn't take so low. AUS8, 420HC, and the like I would keep around 15 unless you use the microbevel technique.

Fixed blades=convex in my book but a hard use sharpened often blade would still only be taken to around 600 grit. The shape change will be the most effective part of this method.

The great thing about super steels is the ability to make the angle lower without the worry of causing damage to the edge. So if your at 20 per side now with a steel like M4 and take that to 10 per side you may notice a slight increase in deformations but you will gain, ease of sharpening, 10x the cutting performance, a few steps up in sharpness, and you will be taking full advantage of the steels performance abilities.

I would suggest for folders of quality steel a 12 degree main bevel with a 15-18 degree micro. For lesser/"standard" steels add 3 degrees and maybe just do a single bevel.

Careful with D2, below 15 per side you can have problems.
 
Yes, CPMD2 sharpens easier and reaches extreme levels of sharpness. There have been a few threads on the subject lately, do a search.
 
knifenut1013 said:
CPM S30V, S90V, M4, can all take 12 per side without issue, best to do it freehand though as the slight convex from the hand sharpening will aid in its resistance to deformation. You can also go lower (10 degrees per side) and add a microbevel. This makes for a tough edge that's easy too keep sharp with minimal tools and will cut like a hot knife through butter.

Basic stainless steels and carbon steels I wouldn't take so low. AUS8, 420HC, and the like I would keep around 15 unless you use the microbevel technique.

Fixed blades=convex in my book but a hard use sharpened often blade would still only be taken to around 600 grit. The shape change will be the most effective part of this method.

The great thing about super steels is the ability to make the angle lower without the worry of causing damage to the edge. So if your at 20 per side now with a steel like M4 and take that to 10 per side you may notice a slight increase in deformations but you will gain, ease of sharpening, 10x the cutting performance, a few steps up in sharpness, and you will be taking full advantage of the steels performance abilities.

I would suggest for folders of quality steel a 12 degree main bevel with a 15-18 degree micro. For lesser/"standard" steels add 3 degrees and maybe just do a single bevel.

Careful with D2, below 15 per side you can have problems.
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Thank you Knifenut, that is the kind of info I was looking for. So 12 per side is ok on "super steel". Can you tell me other than the CPM and S series steels on my list, which others are in this class (I know the 1055 is out)?? I have several Benchmade's and Kershaw's that are "D2" but I don't know if they are CPM-D2 or not. Does the less than 15 promlem apply to the CPM-D2 as well?

Thanks!
 
IMO I actually find it to be more of a problem with CPM-D2, if its a kershaw CB blade then it is CPM-D2 as I don't know of any kershaws besides the outcast that use AISI D2.


Could you tell me the knife each steel belongs to?
 
knifenut1013 said:
IMO I actually find it to be more of a problem with CPM-D2, if its a kershaw CB blade then it is CPM-D2 as I don't know of any kershaws besides the outcast that use AISI D2.


Could you tell me the knife each steel belongs to?
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Yes the D2 Kershaw is a Outcast, the other D2's are several Benchmade 710's, Grip 551's, one 960 and one Spyderco Millie.

The Carbon V or the Camillus 0170-6C ar Cold Steel Recons & SRK's

The AUS-8A's are Coldsteel Kobun's & Oyibun's

The CPM-M4's are verious Benchmades

The S30V's are several ZT's Kershaws

The S90V is a custom Emerson

The CPM-154's are Early first gen Gerber Yari's

The 8Cr14MoV are several different CRKT's (what the hell is this steel by the way?)

The Sandvik 14C28N's are several Kershaw's

The VG-10's are various Spyderco's and Coldsteel's

The ATS-34's are several different older Emersons & Bucks

The 420HC's are older Bucks

The Carbon 1055's are coldsteel's
 
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Cpt. Thomas said:
Yes the D2 Kershaw is a Outcast, the other D2's are several Benchmade 710's, Grip 551's, one 960 and one Spyderco Millie. The millie is CPM-D2, keep around 15 with all and you should be good.

The Carbon V or the Camillus 0170-6C ar Cold Steel Recons & SRK's
About 15 degree convex or 15-20 standard bevel, I was never as impressed as others with this steel YMMV

The AUS-8A's are Coldsteel Kobun's & Oyibun's
CS does a good job with 8A, low angles if you like.
The CPM-M4's are verious Benchmades
Not a big fan of BM's HT, 12-15 for these.
The S30V's are several ZT's Kershaws
Personally I like S30V with a microbevel, 12 on the back bevel 18 on the micro.
The S90V is a custom Emerson
My S90V millie is 12-15 no micro and has some of the best edge retention I've ever seen. Add a micro and you might never need to sharpen it :eek: I would suggest only using diamond products to sharpen this steel.
The CPM-154's are Early first gen Gerber Yari's
I have no experience with this steel, only 154cm, 15 to be safe.
The 8Cr14MoV are several different CRKT's (what the hell is this steel by the way?)
Its a bit like AUS-8, sharpen low it will keep it cutting longer.
The Sandvik 14C28N's are several Kershaw's
Good stuff, about 15
The VG-10's are various Spyderco's and Coldsteel's
Its VG-1 for CS, a little different from VG-10, I'd probably go low with a micro. Its what works for my VG-10 spidies. Spyderco UF ceramic is great on this steel.
The ATS-34's are several different older Emersons & Bucks
Always heard it was a poor imitation of 154cm, custom makers seem to like if for how well it will polish. 15 to be on the safe side.
The 420HC's are older Bucks
Good stuff but needs to be sharpened often. go low and use a micro.
The Carbon 1055's are coldsteel's Softer carbon steel, 20 degrees should do.
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All angles are per side
 
Cpt. Thomas said:
Thanks knifenut! Any thoughts on the Busse kin INFI & SR-71? I have always left these pretty wide at 22 deg. for the abuse I give them.
Click to expand...

They should be fine like that, I'd still say convex those though.
 
knifenut1013 said:
They should be fine like that, I'd still say convex those though.
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Convex? I know the convex is less friction during the cut but I thought it was weaker as far as hard impact? Do I have it wrong or is the Busse steel just so good that it will take the impacts without damage with a convex profile?
 
Your final edge angle can be whatever you want it to be with convex, it all depends on what angle you sharpen and the degree of pressure you use. Overall though you gain cutting performance and usefulness of the blade.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Thomas
Yes the D2 Kershaw is a Outcast, the other D2's are several Benchmade 710's, Grip 551's, one 960 and one Spyderco Millie. The millie is CPM-D2, keep around 15 with all and you should be good.
The Carbon V or the Camillus 0170-6C ar Cold Steel Recons & SRK's
About 15 degree convex or 15-20 standard bevel, I was never as impressed as others with this steel YMMV

The AUS-8A's are Coldsteel Kobun's & Oyibun's
CS does a good job with 8A, low angles if you like.
The CPM-M4's are verious Benchmades
Not a big fan of BM's HT, 12-15 for these.
The S30V's are several ZT's Kershaws
Personally I like S30V with a microbevel, 12 on the back bevel 18 on the micro.
The S90V is a custom Emerson
My S90V millie is 12-15 no micro and has some of the best edge retention I've ever seen. Add a micro and you might never need to sharpen it I would suggest only using diamond products to sharpen this steel.
The CPM-154's are Early first gen Gerber Yari's
I have no experience with this steel, only 154cm, 15 to be safe.
The 8Cr14MoV are several different CRKT's (what the hell is this steel by the way?)
Its a bit like AUS-8, sharpen low it will keep it cutting longer.
The Sandvik 14C28N's are several Kershaw's
Good stuff, about 15
The VG-10's are various Spyderco's and Coldsteel's
Its VG-1 for CS, a little different from VG-10, I'd probably go low with a micro. Its what works for my VG-10 spidies. Spyderco UF ceramic is great on this steel.
The ATS-34's are several different older Emersons & Bucks
Always heard it was a poor imitation of 154cm, custom makers seem to like if for how well it will polish. 15 to be on the safe side.
The 420HC's are older Bucks
Good stuff but needs to be sharpened often. go low and use a micro.
The Carbon 1055's are coldsteel's Softer carbon steel, 20 degrees should do.

All angles are per side
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but I think you're the first person willing to provide an answer across a range of steels in this manner. Good stuff!!

cbw
 
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