Edge holding - 0170-6C and 440C?

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Naphtali

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May 20, 2002
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Both 440C and 0170-6C have been in use as knife blade material since I was in elementary school, at least. However ubiquitous they are, I cannot find an answer to what I thought was a question easy to answer. In terms of [tabor] wear testing or any other that has been done, when heat treated properly to a hardness range of HRC 58-59, which of the two steels is more abrasion resistant? Which holds and edge longer?
 
Naphtali said:
Both 440C and 0170-6C have been in use as knife blade material since I was in elementary school, at least. However ubiquitous they are, I cannot find an answer to what I thought was a question easy to answer. In terms of [tabor] wear testing or any other that has been done, when heat treated properly to a hardness range of HRC 58-59, which of the two steels is more abrasion resistant? Which holds and edge longer?
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Those are apples and oranges, no one calls it 0170-6C anymore, looks like Kabar uses it as 1095 cro-van. You're question would be better answered if you were comparing the knives rather than the bars of steel. Becker 1095 CroVan vs ESEE 440C? What models?
 
Unless I had available the identical knives with blade steels different, I had hoped, assumed that either steel manufacturers or commercial knife manufacturers would have completed standardized testing with test bars. Going on that assumption, I searched the Internet for results, even merely a poorly designed graph. Possibly because, as you wrote, "apples and oranges" or too old, perhaps none who could do such standardized testing has bothered to do so for so long that results are no longer published?
 
you'll have MUCH better search results if you use the name it's well known as - carbon v

see this graph - and explanation - very nice simple carbon steel with almost 0.2% vanadium for decent grain refinement
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/0170-6c.shtml

to answer your other question - 440c will hold an edge longer than carbon v ; ) much more carbides etc, but your carbon v should be much tougher
 
Naphtali said:
Both 440C and 0170-6C have been in use as knife blade material since I was in elementary school, at least. However ubiquitous they are, I cannot find an answer to what I thought was a question easy to answer. In terms of [tabor] wear testing or any other that has been done, when heat treated properly to a hardness range of HRC 58-59, which of the two steels is more abrasion resistant? Which holds and edge longer?
Click to expand...
440C is more abrasion resistant. It's loaded with chunks of chromium carbide.
0170-6C is 1095 carbon steel modified with very small amounts of other elements. It's essentially 1095 with a somewhat finer grain structure and with elements to help it cure in thick sections. The only "carbides" would be cementite AKA iron carbide. Chromium carbide is much harder than cementite.

Carbon V has been several alloys. When the Cold Steel knives were made by Camillus, 0170-6C was used.
When they were made by other manufacturers, other very similar alloys were used.

Alloy steel will hold a fine edge somewhat longer than alloys with carbides. But alloys with carbides will hold a working edge significantly longer.
 
440C is a b*tch to sharpen, at least my old Bucks were; 0170-6C will take a finer edge a lot faster. I've found VG-10 and 0170-6C to be very close in edge-holding. My Master Hunter in Carbon V is one of my favorite blades.
 
I will take your advice and try to identify a comparison using alternate names for the carbon steel.
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Regarding sharpening blades, discovering that my ability to maintain an angle to sharpen blades with Russell Novaculite stones approached zero, I first used a Lansky fixture system, then upgraded significantly to a Gatco Professional diamond system. My Gatco's wide diamond stones - its entire system - makes sharpening blades easy, up to and including the four built-to-order Cowry X Damascus hunting knives (emulating Randall Model 5) that are now possessed by my nephew and each of his three sons. Possibly I call the process "easy" because I don't mind sharpening a blade over several days.
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Knarfeng mentions that finishes can be finer with the carbon steel. My default angle has been 19 degrees per side for my outdoorsman's knives as well as my better quality kitchen knives with Gatco's MEDIUM or FINE finishes, depending upon how insistent I am to achieve the FINE finish.

So I appear to be satisfied having "working" edge, and that makes the crux of my question answered. I'll still try to find test results to identify the amount or degree, whatever it should be called, to see tested "numbers."

Many thanks to all of you.
 
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